The New Pee-wee Herman Documentary Glosses Over Pee-wee’s Feud With Phil Hartman

For a documentary so packed with Pee-wee Herman lore that it required two 90-minute segments, Pee-wee As Himself glosses over some critical parts of the character’s history. While the majority of Paul Reubens’ comedy career springboards from his Groundlings creation, the two-part doc mostly skips over the fact that other talented people had a hand in creating his stage show, movie and Saturday morning kiddie program. And there’s barely a hint of Reubens’ conflict with Phil Hartman until an hour into the second segment of the doc, when Howard Stern interviews the Saturday Night Live alum.

Hartman tells Stern that Reubens contacted him for the first time in years after his infamous arrest at an adult movie theater. “Paul called me … and we had been estranged, really since I started Saturday Night Live.” 

“You’re at odds with him — why?” asked Stern before providing an answer himself. “Because you felt you helped develop the Pee-wee Playhouse (sic), and you never received credit or money for it. Is that correct?”

“That’s part of it,” Hartman conceded. 

Stern wanted to know why Hartman didn’t simply sue the pants off of his former colleague.

“I certainly could have,” Hartman said. “And a lot of people have.”

“Paul knew he needed help onstage,” says Pee-wee Herman Show co-producer Dawna Kaufmann (who also considered suing Reubens) in the book You Might Remember Me: The Life and Times of Phil Hartman. “He couldn’t do the whole thing by himself.”

So Reubens turned to his Groundlings cohorts, including Hartman, who played Captain Carl. The two improvised the Pee-wee/Captain Carl scenes, which became an integral part of the show. As The Pee-wee Herman Show grew more popular, Reubens grew more enamored of his own star power. But he never messed with Hartman, “probably the only person who ever stood up to Pee-wee,” according to co-star and Groundling John Paragon. 

Reubens didn’t deliver on promised cash to people who helped him develop the show once HBO came calling — “Phil, for one, was hurt profoundly, deeply” — but that didn’t stop Hartman from collaborating on the screenplay for Pee-wee’s Big Adventure. In the documentary, Reubens takes credit for the plot about Pee-wee’s bike being stolen. Co-writer Michael Varhol claims the bike was Hartman’s idea.

But the big fallout came when Hartman accepted a cast position on Saturday Night Live. He’d reluctantly reprised his Captain Carl role on the first season of Pee-wee’s Playhouse, but he’d have to drop out due to his new late-night duties. Reubens wasn’t happy about the move. “We had kind of a falling-out way back when, and it’s too bad,” Hartman explained. “Because that part of my life was a real turning point.” 

Reubens didn’t speak to Hartman for years despite the comic actor being one of Reubens’ most essential collaborators. For his part, Hartman was stung by never getting his fair share of profits or credit for the Pee-wee empire. But Hartman held less of a grudge than the mercurial Reubens. 

“The truth is everybody was in love with Paul Reubens and his talent,” Hartman said during their fallout. “And I still remain a great admirer of his.”