Lewis Black Isn’t Done Screaming, But He’s Actually More Optimistic Than You’d Think

From Craig Kilborn to Jon Stewart to Trevor Noah to Jon Stewart again with four other rotating hosts, The Daily Show has evolved many times over its 29-year run. The one constant amid years of transformation? Lewis Black. For nearly three decades, the comic’s rage-filled recurring segment “Back in Black” has eviscerated stupidity in politics, regardless of host or the person living in the White House.

Lewis joined the show during the Clinton administration, which means he’s been with The Daily Show through the Monica Lewinsky scandal, 9/11, the Iraq War, the pandemic, the January 6th insurrection and now President Trump’s second term in office. 

I recently spoke with Lewis to better understand how The Daily Show evolved to become such a massive vehicle for speaking truth to power and how the scope and tenor of its coverage has changed with each administration. He gave me his honest assessment of each, including how the show may have been too soft on President Biden. But in his own moment of zen, I also found that the angriest guy on TV has a pretty rosy outlook worth sharing. 

Having been there for 29 years, what is it about The Daily Show that keeps you coming back?

Besides the paycheck?

Yes, besides that, why has it been the right outlet for you?

In a lot of ways it’s been great because it goes to my strength, which is being a big barking dog. Also, I’m not a social media genius, and it has really, in a lot of ways, maintained my presence out there as the show has become more social media oriented. In a sense, it’s an advertisement: “Oh, he’s still alive?”

That’s flattering.

It’s true! I’ve reached that point where people go, “Hey, is he still alive?” What the fuck have I got to do? You assholes, really? And this is after Inside Out, what do you want? How do I prove that I’m still alive? Sure, there’s The Daily Show, but it’s not enough, obviously. It’s only on cable. “He’s not on Instagram enough, so he couldn’t possibly be living!”

You’ve been on the show for 29 years now, through several different presidents. I thought it would be interesting to go president by president and have you talk about how the show has evolved from your viewpoint. Starting with Bill Clinton. 

Well, I mean, we were discovering what we were. When I started, there was no audience. I wrote (my segment) completely on my own. There was no visual other than me. Then, after a year or so, it evolved into something else. It wasn’t even dealing with Clinton, we just had pounds and pounds of video that I’m pretty sure we didn’t have to pay for. So it was like squirrels on surfboards and tomatoes being crushed in a town in Spain — basically just oddities — and then we strung them together. It wasn’t really about Clinton. It was really after Kilborn and once Jon comes in that there’s a little more focus on politics.

How about with George W. Bush?

That’s when it finds its focus, because of Jon. After that, I end up doing “Back in Black” when it serves the purpose of that show. He starts to focus on the arc of the show, whereas I would just pop in and scream about something that’s completely inane, basically to release the audience from the trauma that they might’ve experienced. Plus, during the Bush years, we were at war, so that doesn’t help. That puts a different focus on it. Then, when we got to Obama, it became something else. 

In American politics, stupidity is like whack-a-mole. You can pound it out and you go, “Okay, we just got rid of that kind of stupid.” Then there’s another kind of stupid that pops up. So, during the Bush era, it’s about the presidency and the vice presidency. Then you get to Obama and it becomes somewhat about the presidency, but there’s a different focus and it becomes more about Congress. The stupidity is still there. As a comic, people will ask me things like, “Bush is gone, what are you going to do now?” But there’s always stupidity. If stupidity were oil, we’d be the richest country. 

Then with Trump, the first go-around was really about getting over the shock of it. In the lead up to it, you’ve got a group of grown men who don’t remember what it’s like to debate against a 10th grader. He’s giving them shit like, “Boy, I can’t believe you’re fat.” He’s doing that kind of stuff, and those guys come back with actual thoughts. I mean, how do they not come back with, “Yeah, but your face is orange”?

Do you think that would have been the better approach? To go down to that level?

Fuck yeah! He’s calling you names, you have to call him names right there. He comes in doing, “Your mother is so fat” jokes, “Your father killed Kennedy,” and these idiots don’t turn around and say, “Well, your father was in prison getting fucked in the ass!” It’s that simple! 

How do you think The Daily Show handled the Biden years?

Probably with a little bit of kid gloves on. I kept calling him the Ghost of Christmas Past, but, much like the rest of the country, we didn’t deal with the fact that he was fading. To his credit, he was trying to get both sides to work together, but what’s the joke there? The joke is that they’re not. 

How about with Trump 2.0, especially in comparison to the first time?

It’s darker this time. For us, it’s about finding ways to frame certain things occurring that are so beyond the norm. One recently was with Robert F. Kennedy, who’s in charge of our health, swimming in Rock Creek Park — where there’s sewage — with his grandkids. The joke is there in front of you, and then we’ve got to come up with other jokes around the joke. It’s already a satire. He’s in charge of health, and he’s the guy that says maybe he shouldn’t get vaccinated. He’s swimming in shit! 

How do you satirize what’s already satiric? That’s the difficulty we’re up against.

To ask you your own question then, how do you satirize what already seems like satire?

I don’t know. It’s a really rough math question. How do you write setups? That’s what it’s about. We’re so used to coming up with the punchline. Now we’re forced on figuring out what the setup is.

What do you think the primary function of The Daily Show is now — to inform or is it a comedy show first?

To inform is to do a comedy show right now. How do you write a better joke than them erasing a picture of the Enola Gay? I say this on stage, “We’re already a comedy! What am I supposed to do to make this shit funnier?”

Speaking of your audience, either for your stand-up or on The Daily Show, how do you feel the audience for comedy has changed in recent years?

Where they used to laugh, they now groan. People used to be able to stand back and laugh at this stuff, which I feel empowers people. That’s what satire allows you to do. I feel satire works as insulation; it allows you to step away from the madness and go, “Oh, this too shall pass.” But I think that folks aren’t laughing anymore at that. 

Why do you think that is?

Because they’re worn out. I think partly the pandemic. Partly it’s the fact that neither side is helping. You go, “Well, look at those Republicans.” You go, “Well, look at the Democrats.” And they talk about the Democrats as being woke, which is absurd. It’s that they’re not doing what they’re supposed to be doing. It’s this aging group of fuckers — of which I’m one. You shut up! Let the kids talk about it! That’s the deal. You fucking assholes. Chuck Schumer? Are you serious? Chuck Schumer, who apparently can’t lift his head up. He never looks up anymore.

My feeling is that I’m lucky because, on The Daily Show, I’m not dealing with a lot of that stuff directly. Jon deals with it, all the other folks deal with it. I’m the guy who comes in, and I’m talking about the Pope or a lot of the social stuff.

Personally speaking, how does Lewis Black find peace among the chaos going on right now?

By taking a nap. It wears my ass out so I better go lie down so I can get up and try again.

That said, I still have this feeling that, when given the choice between right and wrong, most Americans will pick right. If you took everybody — even the ones everybody calls MAGA — if you asked them what they wanted from life, it’d be like, five things and everybody would basically have the same five things, but not in the same order. We want the same things. And so I have faith in us as a people. I lost it for a while, but I’ve realized I trust the people. I just don’t trust the leadership.

If you lost your faith in people, how did you get it back?

I realized that it’s really the leadership. Everybody keeps saying, “Well, it’s up to us.” That’s really great, but there are people who actually need to do the stuff we need done. I haven’t lost faith in us, but I have lost faith in either party having any comprehension of how to deal with what our problems are.

People are always going, “God, you’re so cynical.” How can I be this cynical and still be an optimist? I think it’s because you can’t be that cynical unless you believe that it can be better. I’ve always believed it can be better, and as long as you believe it can be better, that’s where the hope lies.