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SpaceTyrant
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« on: November 02, 2008, 10:03 PM »

I don't know why, religion doesn't work for me, neither do any scientific ideas. I cannot find a single reason to why anything should exist. Can anyone come up with a purposeful meaning for existence?
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rblaa
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2008, 10:27 PM »

Because it feels good. Because I'm afraid of dying. Because I still want to finish the World of Goo. Because I want to see my kids grow up. Because I like being alive.

There is no deep reason, really. By now the only kinds of people that are left are those who have a survival instinct. Those that don't tend not to stick around.

The world is varied and textured enough to make existence as interesting an experience as you want it to be. There are certainly enough serious problems and suffering happening these days to make their elimination a worthwhile endeavour.

Go and apply yourself.

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SpaceTyrant
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2008, 10:33 PM »

Because it feels good. Because I'm afraid of dying. Because I still want to finish the World of Goo. Because I want to see my kids grow up. Because I like being alive.

There is no deep reason, really. By now the only kinds of people that are left are those who have a survival instinct. Those that don't tend not to stick around.

The world is varied and textured enough to make existence as interesting an experience as you want it to be. There are certainly enough serious problems and suffering happening these days to make their elimination a worthwhile endeavour.

Go and apply yourself.


Are you saying I shouldn't question my existence? Surely, by my post, you can see this is a difficult thing for me.
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Rufa
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2008, 11:23 PM »

While I don't necessarily share his general philosophy, I think rblaa's post summed up pretty well your situation. You would have found something that worked you if you were seriously looking for it. Life has all the meaning you give it. For example, if you think the purpose of life is questioning your existence, prepare to have a lot more questions than answers. It sounds like you're pretty resolved to a meaningless life. That could change, but no one will be able to use logic to change your mind. It would take a fundamental paradigm shift.
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Fourninefoxtrot
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2008, 11:39 PM »

Are you looking for an objective reason, or a subjective one?

Most of what you discuss is, or is thought of as, the former:  In such religious or scientific scenarios, we exist for some Reason or Purpose, the truth of which is greater than ourselves.  If those don't work for you, rblaa's reasons work as subjective reasons.  They exist within our own minds to give our personal existence a personal meaning.

So, which are you looking for?  The Reason For Existence?  Or a reason to exist?

Or is this all a big misunderstanding, and you're really just asking "How the hell did this 'life' thing happen?"
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Paracetamol
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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2008, 11:46 PM »

No one is going to be able to logically prove to you why you should exist or offer up some ready made philosophy that will suddenly give your life meaning. It simply doesn't work that way.
If there's nothing in your life that seems profound or important or even worth investigating, it's very likely because you're currently living a sheltered existence. It's very easy to rationalize the value of life away when you're not actually living it. Go outside and find something new.
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FuriousAngel
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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2008, 12:06 AM »

No one is going to be able to logically prove to you why you should exist or offer up some ready made philosophy that will suddenly give your life meaning. It simply doesn't work that way.
If there's nothing in your life that seems profound or important or even worth investigating, it's very likely because you're currently living a sheltered existence. It's very easy to rationalize the value of life away when you're not actually living it. Go outside and find something new.
Great post Paracetamol. I went through that same problem a few years ago living a sheltered existence, becoming a little disconnected from the outside world. It wasn't until I started putting myself out there and meeting new people that I became optimistic about life again.

What you need SpaceTyrant is a hobby or something in your life to become passionate about, something to make being sentient and being gifted with senses worth while, because then you're more able to apply a meaning to existence. For some people its playing an instrument while for others its writing dick jokes. Even just having a special person in your life be it a Best Friend, girl friend or whatever can make existing purposeful

To quote Chuck Palahnuik:
Quote
What I want is to be needed. What I need is to be indispensable to somebody. Who I need is somebody that will eat up all my free time, my ego, my attention. Somebody addicted to me. A mutual addiction.
I feel lucky as I have found someone like that in my life.

Overall I'm of the opinion that if they were to come out tomorrow with the full answer to why we exist it wouldn't be a satisfying answer so like rufa and rblaa have said make life mean whatever you want it to mean.
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rblaa
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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2008, 03:37 AM »

Are you saying I shouldn't question my existence?

Not at all. Self doubt and questioning is healthy. Terminal questioning might not be though.

Personally, I am not into the finding out the True Purpose Of Things. I am hedonistic enough to get by on simple pleasures.

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Surely, by my post, you can see this is a difficult thing for me.

I really do think that if you don't seem to be able to figure things out, then take some time off from the problem. Really, stop thinking about it and go and help people instead. I predict that after a while their problems will be your own, and solving them will focus your purpose.
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Sa9jev
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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2008, 09:25 AM »

I've always found that it's easier to find a good reason to live than a good reason not to. Then again, that's for personal existence, not the existence of everything else - that's a much beefier question philosphers have been tinkering with since man could think. I imagine the answer to that question is something that we each have to figure out personally before we die, and that there's not really a quantifiably, objective answer.
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ZTA
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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2008, 02:15 PM »

I don't know why, religion doesn't work for me, neither do any scientific ideas. I cannot find a single reason to why anything should exist. Can anyone come up with a purposeful meaning for existence?

From what we can tell about our universe, it appears that the physical universe (the 4 dimensional physical world) is only a small fraction of what the Universe actually has to offer.

Basically, it is like we are a side effect.

Life is just one big side effect of an event (big bang). The Universe may have many dimensions that we here on the physical plane are unable to perceive. Like I said, our physical, 4D world (length, width, depth, and time) is only a small fraction of what the Universe actually is.

Life arose after billions of years of reactions, chain reactions since the beginning of the known physical universe. Humans didn't just spring up out of nowhere, it took a looooooooooooong ass time for humans to come around.

But that's the thing - we arose by ourselves, by the natural process, and not anything else. We are the product of a chain reaction that is simply too incredibly large to fathom. There isn't anybody governing us, watching us, or anything. It's just us humans living on a lonely planet, an outcome of an event billions of years in the past.

So what does this mean about our existence? It means that we can make of it whatever we want. We make our lives worth living. Not no God, not some promise of an eternal afterlife. We, humans, determine everything we do. We decide what's right and what's wrong. We decide what is ethical and what isn't. We have the ability to make whatever we want out of life, which is true freedom. Unfortunately, that's the best it's going to get.



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MyPiesArePiff
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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2008, 04:18 PM »

You might have trouble finding a reason to exist but I think thats because existence is all you know. Having cheated death a few months ago, i know now that life is great. I wrapped my car around a tree going about 70 mph and the cops didn't get there til 3 hours later. I bled out of my head so bad I think the total pints of blood i had to get transfused into my system was 16. Yeah that was over a period of days but 16 pints...damn. When I woke up from my coma and stopped being agitated i came to the realization that my life could be horrible from here on out. Basically i had to learn how to walk, speak, think, and even eat and drink again. Even though my life was basically laying in a hospital bed and getting random fucking surgeries, I never wished i woulda just died in my wreck. I use to think the same thing about my existence. That was if i died it was no big deal, shit happens. Now I can see that part of the reason for existence is so that others can go about their lives normally. When I was at my worst state in the hospital I was still in a coma but had multiple organ failure, using a respirator to breath, and had so many iv's in me that they had to use up both arms and hands. I live in the florida and people i knew from up north and on the west coast were flying in. A few of my friends and family members were at the hospital for at least 20 hours a day. So if i died i could of fucked things up for them pretty bad i guess. It might not be the explanation your looking for but theres a reason for everything. Sometimes you see the reason for living because your still living. I don't know where i wanted to go with this...just something to think about.
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Vimmy
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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2008, 04:36 PM »

I don't believe that there is any one reason to exist. It is mostly subjective. You contribute, in your own way, to the planet or the people on it. I don't know you, your talents, your likes and dislikes, your aspirations, etc, all the things that would contribute to your own "meaning of life". That's for you to decide.
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SpaceTyrant
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« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2008, 04:59 PM »

Are you looking for an objective reason, or a subjective one?

Most of what you discuss is, or is thought of as, the former:  In such religious or scientific scenarios, we exist for some Reason or Purpose, the truth of which is greater than ourselves.  If those don't work for you, rblaa's reasons work as subjective reasons.  They exist within our own minds to give our personal existence a personal meaning.

So, which are you looking for?  The Reason For Existence?  Or a reason to exist?

Or is this all a big misunderstanding, and you're really just asking "How the hell did this 'life' thing happen?"
I guess what I'm saying is, that even if things exist for some greater meaning, why did that greater meaning have to exist?
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David?
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« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2008, 05:46 PM »

I don't think there IS a greater meaning. My personal philosophy to exist has always been to propagate and enhance the species. To make humans better. I had this same question about existence a long time ago after I left the Christian Church. I went to Buddhism and left, Nietzche and left, Thoreau and left. But having read all of them I started to see patterns.
Don't kill.
Don't steal.
Study and learn.
Love/Respect each other.
Let go of your physical self.
And that we all share a common bond. All of those things build us as a united species with or without god. These ideals build trust, teamwork, confidence, all things that will make us a better human race and without you, without me, without John Cheese, we have one less tool to becoming a greater civilization. These ideals not only give reason to live but also motivation to be better, smarter, kinder, people. I feel it works with nature AND religion, propagation and enhancement of the species.

Hooray for life!
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Adastophilis
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« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2008, 06:10 PM »

I guess what I'm saying is, that even if things exist for some greater meaning, why did that greater meaning have to exist?

I don't think you are listening to any of the responses in this thread.  Nobody has said there is a "greater meaning."  Everybody answered your original question by saying that there is no specific meaning for existence and that it is up to you to decide for yourself.  Nobody is going to be able to say, "this is what the purpose of your life is" - that is your decision.  Go and figure it out for yourself.
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Frozen Pie
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« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2008, 06:28 PM »

I guess what I'm saying is, that even if things exist for some greater meaning, why did that greater meaning have to exist?

I took this as you meant "why should a person want or need  to believe in a greater existence?" i.e. the purpose of meaning.

The answer to that question for me has always been simple: comfort.

 I've always believed that people desire meaning in their existence because they are afraid. People generally don't believe (or don't want to believe) that their existence has no meaning. People want to be needed. The world is big, the Universe is big, everything seems so much larger than us, and our lives. When confronted with the grand scale of time, of life, and of the universe, one tends to feel very small. If a person believes that their life has greater meaning, that life itself has greater meaning then they can live believing that there is something greater than themselves at work, and that they are a part of it.

Personally, I don't believe in greater meaning. I believe that the Universe, the World, Life, People, Myself, are wonderful, beautiful things. But that that is all they are. I believe that things exist, and that existing is wonderful. I don't believe that there is anything more, and I don't need anything more.
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« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2008, 01:19 PM »

I agree pretty much with rblaa's points. You say you have trouble finding a purpose to your life; well if you spend your whole life worrying that it's all for nothing, then you wont have a very good one. Find your own meaning, live life how you want to. It sounds a bit Existentialist, but isn't it better to believe that you're in control of your own life, and can make your own meanings, rather than having it being set by some religious deity?

To put it more eloquently, in Douglas Adams' words:

'Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?'
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rblaa
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2008, 05:53 PM »

It sounds a bit Existentialist, but isn't it better to believe that you're in control of your own life, and can make your own meanings, rather than having it being set by some religious deity?

While I am not religious myself, I would like to point out that my position articulated above does not preclude a religious position.

I am basically saying: I am content with my purpose and it shouldn't be that hard for you to be content with your purpose as well. If you can't be content with your purpose then do something useful to take your mind off of the problem.

Now if you find your purpose is set by a religious deity then that's just fine. Well, just as long as you're not a freak about it.
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Uberstache
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« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2008, 10:45 PM »

I guess what I'm saying is, that even if things exist for some greater meaning, why did that greater meaning have to exist?
Any chain of questioning repeatedly answered with "Yeah, but why?" is going to end the same way. Whether this is because there is no obtainable answer, the answer itself is nothing, or because the line of questioning is inherently flawed is a matter of personal opinion.
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JLrep
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« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2008, 10:47 PM »

I guess what I'm saying is, that even if things exist for some greater meaning, why did that greater meaning have to exist?

Well, every time you find a purpose for a greater meaning, that purpose itself becomes the 'greater meaning.' Presumably, if we assume the existence of a greater meaning, then it is its own purpose. Such a thought process is not strictly logical, but a greater meaning may be above logic (at least, our logic). You can indefinitely ask the question "Why?" to any series of statements, as Uberstache mentioned, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you can eternally call into question the meaning of things; to use a mathematical analogy, some infinite series have finite sums.
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