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[Chairman_Meow]

You're pretty much talking about calling the cops on the cops, and in a system run by people doing their jobs it would work.

But I guess this is where personal preferences diverge. I don't want a formal apology, I want a sincere one. If two cops will be giggling and high-fiving about my feelings being hurt as son as my back is turned from a formal apology, I'll pass thanks. Besides, one is setting him or herself up for retaliation from someone who has already demonstrated himself to be off-kilter.

And do you honestly believe the cops in my above linked videos are truly sorry? Do you think the man who beat the crap out of a handcuffed and defenseless woman has changed his ways after she was wheeled away on a gurney? What about cops who taser pregnant women? Or children? Many of these people issue apologies. But that's easy. The hard part is exercising one's demons.

I'm not saying all the bad guys are cops. But like a previous poster wrote, it's a profession that attracts a lot of bullies. People like this aren't violent and abusive because they're cops; they're cops because they're violent and abusive.

[Gartis]

It was hard watching all the videos you linked. But these are horrible people, not horrible cops. Even if they weren't cops, they would be beating the crap out of people anyway.

But I don't think it's fair for you to bring up a couple isolated incidents and say its common. I do realize there are at least a hundred of these incidents you can point out. But compared to how many calls, and how many officers respond, (that being THOUSANDS a day, at an average police station in Phoenix), it isn't even a tenth of a percent. Not even close.

I worked at a restaurant where police recieved a similar discount, and they were nothing but respectful toward us. In fact, I was the only male there one night (superbowl weekend, it was a dumb decision by management.). We had a group of men giving our people alot of trouble. We felt threatened. We called, the police arrived, and told them they all had to leave immediately. They did, and we thanked the police and they left. You say you have never had a good experience with police, but aside from the restaurant (Which I find just perplexing), you have only been pulled over once. I think it may actually be something to do with your area. If I recall correctly, its from a part of Lousiana, correct? Maybe the police stations are just different there? Do you have any other experiences with them at all?

[Sami.Bobani]

I guess I had no reason to believe the cop was hi-fiving his friend after I left. We had a rational talk, he seemed to actually understand. He apologized. The end. He didn't taser me or beat me. He simply said a comment I felt was inappropriate and didn't help the situation. I can't prove his sincerity. But he explained to me why he said it, why he didn't realize it would provoke that reaction. I really felt like he was just a little clueless. In the end I walked away happy with the situation.

Beatings and police brutality are another issue alltogether. It's not what I consider the same as harassment. In cases of police brutality I think legal action should be taken. The cop should be dismissed. The end.

But I've seen cops police cops many, many times. There is a hierarchy in place for that reason alone. It doesn't always work, and of course progress isn't made on every issue. And for the record, I totally understand your viewpoint based on the experiences you mentioned previously. I guess I just figure that they are the only people that can be assholes to you that you can actually hold accountable. So for me, the balance works.  

[Chairman_Meow]

Even if they weren't cops, they would be beating the crap out of people anyway.

Would they be able to pull people over? Would they have a legal access to an array of weapons with little to no limitations? Would their co-workers be okay with their handcuffing people before assaulting them? Would their boss be supportive of shooting over 50,000 volts through a 14-year-old girl? And would children be taught to respect their authority without question?

I understand there are decent and good individuals who are cops. Statistically speaking there has to be. But I think the reason people get hostile towards the police is that not only have they seen a near daily new police brutality story on the news, but they could also be thinking of the times they called the cops only to not have them show up. Or one walk up to them and demand to search them for no reason. Or simply be glared at for laughing just a little too loudly in public.

[Callum828]

I'm not saying all the bad guys are cops. But like a previous poster wrote, it's a profession that attracts a lot of bullies. People like this aren't violent and abusive because they're cops; they're cops because they're violent and abusive.

I think this applies less to police and more to bouncers or security guards. The people who choose to enter the police as a profession are usually doing it because they want to help people (at least from my experience). Contrast this to nightclub bouncers, of whom a worrying number are ex-convicts.

[Nemesis39]

as someone who is soon to be a police officer i know what it's like to be constantly scrutinized by just about everyone who really has no idea what they're talking about. unfortunatly most people get they're information from TV, thinking CSI is the way things really are.

one of the first things they teach us is that most people you deal with wont like you, and we accept that. we know that we keep you safe, that you depend on what we do and it doesn't matter if anyone accepts it or not.

on the note of your taser, it's an extremely important tool for an officer. if you have a hostile person, the only other tool with any sort of range is your gun, and nobody wants to have to go straight to that.

i guess that what i'm trying to get at is that you really don't know what it's liek to be on the other side. on a side note i do live in Canada, which does make things different since the people i (for the most part) deal with arn't americans, so that probably changes things as well.

[rustyjoe]

In the Academy, we have a motto:

"There's the letter of the law and the spirit of the law."

Don't be a dick, and we won't be an ass to you. This goes to anyone who you meet in life.

[rafaelmondini]

unfortunatly most people get they're information from TV, thinking CSI is the way things really are.

As a forensic investigator myself, I must say that people expect more from us than we can really provide: it's the infamous CSI-effect. As a law enforcement officer also, I must say that people have no clue of what we do (for example, the astonishing amount of paperwork we have to deal with on a daily basis) or are entitled to do. I guess that the fact that people pick at policemen stems from the fact that we are the nearest as possible to the "power" most of them are ever going to get, since we are the ones who sometimes get to deal with people. I'm not trying to justify any abuse, racial profiling or other forms of over the top use of authority, but people tend to forget that we are as human as any civilian is, in the same way people forget that firefighters are people like any of us, but still label them only as heroes. Here in Brazil, there's a very popular saying that goes like this: "when something bad happens, they blame the police. When the police avoid something bad from happening, they thank G'd".

[Fourninefoxtrot]

I'm fairly conflicted about cops.

On the one hand, part of me hates and fears them.  Not because I've had bad experiences, really.  I haven't, or at least, not bad experiences that were at all the fault of the cops. 

Several times, while target shooting in the woods, I've had cops pull up on me.

Once, the county sheriffs came to where my car was parked, out of my sight, and called out on their loudspeaker for me to return to my car.  They knew I was target shooting, they had surely heard the gunfire.  I approached them empty-handed and unarmed as I came into sight.  They had guns drawn but not pointed, and asked me to stop, lift my shirt, and turn in a circle.  I did so.  Then they came closer and frisked me (not very thoroughly).  I view this as a slight overreaction to a non-threatening situation, since I was never in their presence with a firearm.  But I'm not upset about it, and wasn't at the time.

Another time, I was shooting someplace else, and another county sheriff walked up on me.  Scared the holy hell out of me, in fact, because I was in the middle of shooting off a cylinder from my revolver when I heard her voice behind me.  Stupidly, I turned around quickly, as I was surprised, and still had the loaded gun in my hand.  She did not draw her weapon, just asked me to put mine down.  I did.

Those were my most... intense encounters with cops.  Neither was bad.  The officers did not act inappropriately.  Similarly, in the few situations I've been pulled over, I've always been polite and respectful, and have been treated civilly in return.  Occasionally, cops have gone beyond civility and actually been very nice about things. 

I don't have a problem with cops because I've been mistreated by them, or witnessed it.  I have a problem with cops because they are the last class of people in existence (in my country, anyway) who by dint of their position demand courtesy and respect on pain of physical harm.  I am respectful to police officers not because I respect their jobs, although I do, but because I'm afraid I could get injured or killed, or at least arrested, otherwise.  During most of history, a person could be killed on the spot by an authority figure; a nobleman, a soldier, whomever.  There are no longer nobles to whom one must bow or be killed.  Soldiers in my country no longer rape and pillage and murder indiscriminately (it happens rarely, but certainly isn't epidemic as it has been for basically all of history), and can't even be deployed against our own citizens.  Police, though, still have that power of life and death, however regulated, however much the attempt has been made to take that power out of their hands.   

It's purely the authority.  Cops generate a reaction of fear and loathing because they exist as an overt threat to any who disobey.  I was not raised to have to bow to any man, or call any man "sir".  I was not raised to think any man my better, nor to expect any man to have power of life and death over me.

And that's why I don't like cops.

But I respect the hell out of them.  The good ones, anyway, the ones who don't abuse that enormous power, that vast and terrible power of intimidation.  No, I don't like them.  I don't know if anybody really does like them, other than as individuals they know.  The good cops go in knowing this, knowing that they forfeit being likable, being regular people, often forfeit their friendships outside the force.  They become a class unto themselves, and it's got to be a lonely feeling.  Authority always is.  Cops, good cops, accept that as the price for doing that job.  Bad cops revel in it, in the power that separation from society brings them.  I am fortunate that the good cops in my country far outweigh the bad.  And I am fortunate that the rule of law still governs, even over cops.  And so, I am respectful and polite, and underneath that I am resentful and terrified, whenever I encounter a cop.

I am not saying I think cops should have less power, or more power.  I don't really see anything can be done to change this, how I feel about cops, how people generally (in my experience) feel about them.

That's just how it is.

[Sami.Bobani]

It's purely the authority.  Cops generate a reaction of fear and loathing because they exist as an overt threat to any who disobey.  I was not raised to have to bow to any man, or call any man "sir".  I was not raised to think any man my better, nor to expect any man to have power of life and death over me.

And that's why I don't like cops.

I think that's really understandable. But I also think a lot of it might be perception. Airline pilots also have the power of life or death over you. And you call them Captain. Or First Officer. Your boss has the ability to cripple you financially, and any shmoe with a car can take life from you.

I'm not saying how you feel is wrong. But I almost wonder if your perception of the police has less to do with reality (as they have, by your admission, never actually harassed you) and more with projection of fear.

I was talking about this issue last night with my husband (police officer) who I questioned about cops policing themselves. He mentioned that one of the things most people don't realize is that you will never actually see it happen (unless you're part of the unit). It is procedure that you remove the officer from the situation and check him in private. Never in front of a criminal/suspect.

Apparently last night he had to do that to a fellow officer who was running his mouth with a subject. Calling the guy scum. Verbal harassment. So my husband asked to see him. Told him that shit didn't fly, and to take a walk. It might be worth being mentioning that the criminal was facing charges of carving up his wife's face (who may or may not live). Policeman have to be unendingly calm and even cordial to people that have done things that would illicit an immediate punch to the face from me. So I try to give them credit when credit is due.

[Chairman_Meow]

Don't be a dick, and we won't be an ass to you. This goes to anyone who you meet in life.

Most people I'm a dick to don't have the almost unchecked right to physically hurt me for being an asshole.

I guess that the fact that people pick at policemen stems from the fact that we are the nearest as possible to the "power" most of them are ever going to get, since we are the ones who sometimes get to deal with people. I'm not trying to justify any abuse, racial profiling or other forms of over the top use of authority, but people tend to forget that we are as human as any civilian is, in the same way people forget that firefighters are people like any of us, but still label them only as heroes. Here in Brazil, there's a very popular saying that goes like this: "when something bad happens, they blame the police. When the police avoid something bad from happening, they thank G'd".

This is the type of arrogance I think about when I think about police in general. First you imply we citizens are jealous of your authority. Then you say that you're only human, and then you say these citizens should be thanking you instead of God as though you're on the same level as God.

It is procedure that you remove the officer from the situation and check him in private. Never in front of a criminal/suspect.

Why? It's because they don't want the public to see them as fallible and human unless they're absolutely forced to by the public, usually when the news gets involved. For instance, the LAPD had a long and colorful history of the most rampant corruption imaginable. But it wasn't until they were caught on tape that they used the excuse of being regular Joes who can make honest mistakes.

[Mortal Wombat]

I guess that the fact that people pick at policemen stems from the fact that we are the nearest as possible to the "power" most of them are ever going to get, since we are the ones who sometimes get to deal with people. I'm not trying to justify any abuse, racial profiling or other forms of over the top use of authority, but people tend to forget that we are as human as any civilian is, in the same way people forget that firefighters are people like any of us, but still label them only as heroes. Here in Brazil, there's a very popular saying that goes like this: "when something bad happens, they blame the police. When the police avoid something bad from happening, they thank G'd".

This is the type of arrogance I think about when I think about police in general. First you imply we citizens are jealous of your authority. Then you say that you're only human, and then you say these citizens should be thanking you instead of God as though you're on the same level as God.

I really think you are reading way too much into his statement, colored by your general negative perception of police.  In the same way that you want police to give you the benefit of the doubt in a real-life situation, try to give a poster the benefit of the doubt when his words are ambiguous.  Of course he didn't mean police were on the same level as God, that seems like a really strong re-interpretation of his words.  Who would say something like that?

And by the first part he obviously meant that citizens have beef with authority and the government for many reasons, because of things that politicians and other officials do, but they never see those people face to face, only the police, who represent those people, so that's where the tensions come out.

I'm sure you have perfectly legitimate complaints about police behavior but two wrongs don't make a right, try to treat other people's words fairly even if their side treats you unfairly.

[Kalli]

It is procedure that you remove the officer from the situation and check him in private. Never in front of a criminal/suspect.

Actually, this applies to just about everyone, or it should.  No employee should be dressed down in front of a customer or another employee.  I get embarrassed when I see parents hollering at their kids at the grocery store because it's like airing dirty laundry.  I don't think it's about preserving the so-called infallibility of the police, but because it's nobody's business but the culprit and the supervisor.


Policemen become so of their own free will, but I respect them because they do a dangerous job. 

99% of the time I've had a close encounter with law enforcement was because I was speeding.  I was polite and cooperative each time, and was let off with a warning for about half of them. 

I did get a guy who was obviously not having a nice day, however.  I was driving through Alligator Alley, which is a practically deserted stretch of highway running East-West through the southernmost part of Florida, listening to Rush.  Well, Red Barchetta came on and if you know the song, you'll know the point at which I put the hammer down, just as I blazed past Ol' Smokey.  No Rush fan, he was disinclined to accept my explanation of why I was going so fast.  To make matters worse, I was returning from a family reunion where I had been making a wedding cake, so the bed of my truck was filled with plastic storage bins filled with tons of baking equipment, which he obviously thought I had stolen.  To top it all off, I was also carrying my brother in law as a passenger who doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut.  So what could have been a 10 minute traffic stop turned into a 45 minute harangue and a $500 ticket.  But if I hadn't been speeding, it never would have happened.

The only time I ever felt persecuted was when I was pulled over for driving through a crack neighborhood.  Well, I didn't know it was a crack neighborhood at the time; I'd never been that way before.  When I turned onto the main road I sped up, because, you know, it was a non-residential road with a higher speed limit.  But the cops said it looked suspicious for a white girl to drive through a crack neighborhood and then speed up when leaving the scene.

Then they asked if they could search the truck.  Having only been driving around to kill time, I said "sure".  They weren't destructive or anything (no ripping cushions at the seams or pulling the headliner off) but they did search that truck very thoroughly, until one of them found a tiny white pill that had fallen out of a pill bottle some months earlier.  Since it was an experimental smoking cessation pill I'd been given while participating in a medical study, it had no markings on it of any kind.  To  make a long story short, I was talking to them on the side of the road for about an hour.  Since I had a clean license and tag, and had lived at the same address for about 10 years, they confiscated the pill "for analysis", told me they knew where to find me, and let me go.

There will always be people who abuse their positions of power; whether it be the janitor who malevolently insists on cleaning the only free stall when your back teeth are floating, to the crossing guard who holds up all 6 lanes of traffic when his buddy is crossing the street for a chitchat, to police who look for any excuse to write someone a ticket.  If you haven't done anything wrong, then perhaps your remaining clearheaded will shame a nasty cop into becoming civil.  If a cop does have a reason to be talking to you, then suck it up and don't do whatever it was again.

[norumaru]

In the Academy, we have a motto:

"There's the letter of the law and the spirit of the law."

Don't be a dick, and we won't be an ass to you. This goes to anyone who you meet in life.

I wish this were true. I know that making trouble for a police officer will only be more trouble for you, and I realize they are doing their job, a difficult and important one at that, but I have had my share of very unpleasant encounters with police officers, and I never meant any harm to them or gave them any lip or whatever.

I have been stopped and interrogated for more than an hour for walking around with a ski mask in -20 °C weather. I've been stopped as a suspect for a robbery that was committed in my neighborhood, because I matched the description (something like "tall white guy, jeans, dark sweater," I kid you not) and arrested for resisting arrest when I asked - after they had searched me and verified my identity - if I could go because I was missing my own theater performance. Me and my then-girlfriend had police officers in my apartment for half an hour, acting like we were felons, like they were sure we were hiding something, because there was a party next door (clearly audible) and someone had called in to complain and gave them the wrong name. I have been pulled out of my own house's doorway and punched in the fucking face twice for no discernible reason other than that a demonstration was going to pass in front of my house, and I didn't want to get involved. I had a gun pulled on me in southern Germany, just for being from Berlin. Seriously, that guy just looked at our IDs, pulled his gun and told his colleague to search us, "you never know with you Berliners."

There's more, and I have never done anything to call any police officer's mildest disapproval upon me. Apart from being from Berlin, apparently.

On the other hand, I know a girl who went on to become a police officer, and she's still great, and I've had quite a few nice chats with other officers. That's not a problem inherent to police. There's idiots everywhere, but the problem is that you can't get to them when they're policemen, but they can get to you even more. I don't know how it is in the US, but around here, for every incident in which a police officer is accused of wrongdoing, there will be at least four others who seem to pop up out of nowhere to say he didn't do it. Another classic, if asked for their badge number, is to tell you you're disrupting traffic or hindering police duty, and to ultimately arrest people after 3 or 4 iterations, but actual badge numbers are very rarely given. Duct tape on squad identification signs is yet another.

I am always the guy who says "...but you wouldn't like it without any police, they're doing an important job!" I also often find myself saying "you knew this would land you in trouble, what's your problem?" when people complain about police treating them unfairly in a situation. What I'd like is the ability to do some quality control.

[PurpleTowel]

I believe the basic role that a police officer fulfills is a necessary one. There need to be armed, professional people who investigate and by virtue of their physical presence deter crime. Those are the jobs of a police officer in a rational society; punish people who threaten to harm, or harm others and deterring violent crime and property crime.

However, your job as a police officer is not to protect me. If I am ever in need of protection, there is virtually no chance a police officer will be there on scene to help me. I do not consider police to be heroes, risking their lives for mine. That is not their job. The supreme court has ruled that they have no duty to protect my life by risking their own.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html

That is why I carry a gun. The only person who has a responsibility to protect my life is me. No one else can reasonably be expected to do so. Period. This is equally true for everyone else in the country. Whether or not you own a gun, whether or not you agree with me, the police have no duty to protect you. That's all on you.

Now, while I don't consider police to be heroes, there are certainly individual police officers who have done heroic things and risked or given their lives to save others. Those men have my utmost respect and my deepest thanks. But there are plenty, plenty of private citizens who have done the exact same thing.

Most often when I encounter police officers I either have reason to fear them (marijuana) or I am being cited for some form of traffic violation. Policing traffic is perfectly necessary and helps to keep our roads safe. The drug war serves only to make us less safe and violate our rights, which is why I tend to have a distrustful attitude towards police officers. You may recall the recent Dallas fake drugs scandal, where cops planted felony amounts of drugs on minor offenders. I live in Dallas. I know people who went to jail over that debacle. I have a damn good reason to distrust the police.

That said, every time I encounter a police officer, ever, I am extremely polite and accommodating and pleasant. This is because, at the least, that officer has the ability to fine me and, at the worst, he could be a nutjob who will snap if I anger him. If the cop is going to go on a power trip, I will let him do so and never once raise my voice or talk back to him. Any other behavior would be insane. I act with respect towards everyone I meet, including police.

But I do not trust them. Any of them. I don't believe anyone with that much power should ever be trusted entirely. Doing so can be dangerous.

[rafaelmondini]

"when something bad happens, they blame the police. When the police avoid something bad from happening, they thank G'd".

By that, I meant that people tend to thank G'd when the cops get to the scene and do their jobs, not that cops are G'd. People are prone to forget acknowledging the role of the officers in that situation. On the other hand, when cops do nothing or are incapable of getting to the scene on time, it's usually their fault, whatever the circumstances are.

[Tommy24]

Personally, I like cops. I've had a couple of runs in them when I was a teenager (on both sides of the law) and they were nothing but nice and respectful to me, and saved my ass at least once. I also know a number of police officers on a more personal level, two friends who are cops, and the Chief of Police who used to come into the bar where I waited and he was great. That being said, I can understand the "fuck the police" mentality.

But I don't think it's fair for you to bring up a couple isolated incidents and say its common. I do realize there are at least a hundred of these incidents you can point out. But compared to how many calls, and how many officers respond, (that being THOUSANDS a day, at an average police station in Phoenix), it isn't even a tenth of a percent.

You are completely right. The rational response to seeing an officer do something horrible is that this is an isolated incident done by unmitigated asshole who should've never been a cop in the first place. But when you see news stories or youtube videos of cops walking into bars and beating the shit out of other customers, tazing an eighty year old Grandmother, enforcing their own morality on innocent people, brutalizing minor offenders, tazing a hapless couple, driving while hammered out of their heads and let off or just being dicks because they think they can, you're emotional response is going to be "Oh, those motherfuckers." And until you need the police (which thankfully a lot of us won't) and they come through for you, it's sort of hard to get rid of that emotional response.

[Kein]

I think part of our culture's problem with the police (over and above the obvious attitude issues: our laziness, our selfishness, our anger) is that we were a generation raised by people who didn't like the police, i.e. the Baby Boomers. If they weren't hippies, they watched the action movies with the main character who knows better than the force, your cookie cutter rebel maverick. Twisted the one way and the other, we've been led to believe that the police are in some way different.

The biggest culprits though, are cop shows. Even the ones that support the police are after ratings, and trying to capture an audience. I'm talking about CSI episodes where they do the job of crime scene investigation, detective, and then go arrest the guy, or Law and Order, where they casually spout judgments and second hand political philosophy.

The police aren't supposed to judge us. If they see that something is wrong, they're there to stop the disturbance. They aren't giving a verdict. So what if you get a ticket you didn't deserve? Make your case in court. That's what it's there for. I know it's not always that simple, and that the system isn't perfect, but that isn't the police man's fault either.

For whatever reason, we don't see people doing a job anymore, we see uniforms.

I guess we're supposed to, in a way, but the police are still human beings. They deserve our support, or at least our courtesy. Should we question them? Absolutely. Vigilance is the price of liberty, and all that.

[TheDarkFlame]

I guess we're supposed to, in a way, but the police are still human beings. They deserve our support, or at least our courtesy. Should we question them? Absolutely.

I definitely agree with this. I've just started a Uniformed Public Services course and aim to join the police force here in the UK, and it's surprising some of the things we've been taught already. It's interesting to see that few people actually know their rights so they follow orders regardless. Yes, the police have power, but they aren't all-powerful. There is a limit to what you are forced to tell them and when.

[I_Punched_Jesus]

I'm a teenager, so there is one thing I don't like about cops. A lot of cops follow me around assuming I'm up to something just because of my age. I've had 3 or 4 baseball coaches that were cops so I've never really had a problem with most cops. It's just the ones that follow me if I'm walking to a friends house.