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Author Topic: The 2009 Health Care Reform Fight  (Read 17440 times)
OneWinged Angel
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« Reply #200 on: November 07, 2009, 09:00 PM »

Why would you expect any Republican to vote for the bill?  The party chairman has said that the party will "come after" any congressman who votes for it, and the House GOP whip has promised that not a single Republican will vote for the bill.  That's during the same appearance in which he (and a lot of other Republican leaders) led the crowd of Tea Partiers in chants of "kill the bill".  The Republicans have completely given up on trying to participate in the health care reform debate in order to get a bill that they find more desirable, if they ever were actually engaged.  At this point they just want Obama to fail in his efforts.

It's probably not productive for me to present such a partisan view here, but I have to vent my frustration with the way Republicans have conducted themselves so far.  One the one hand, the Democrats have presented a series of varying (and far from perfect) proposals for how to reform the health care/insurance industry, along with their expected costs and benefits as calculated by the CBO and a vigorous, public debate on the merits and philosophy of these proposals.  On the other hand, the Republicans have offered nothing but fear-mongering, hyperbole, and outright lies.  According to the GOP, every single Democratic proposal is socialism and/or a government takeover of health care.  The most disappointing aspect of this whole thing is that there hasn't actually been a real debate on health care reform, just claims of death panels and fascism.  And it's getting worse, not better.  House GOP Leader John Boehner says that health care reform is the greatest threat to freedom in his 19 years in Congress.  Rep. Steve King says that the House plan will literally cancel every single person's health insurance policy.  Rep. Virginia Foxx says that health care reform is a bigger threat than any terrorist.  That's all within the past three or four days, not during the town hall protests.  The AMA and the AARP have endorsed the current bill, but the Republican party's official position remains that health care reform will put doctors out of business and kill your grandparents.

I'm still somewhat doubtful that any reform package will be signed into law, and even more doubtful that a bill that can get through will have a significant impact.  The main problem is that there's a tradeoff between impact and fiscal responsibility on one side and government philosophy on the other: the broader and more "socialist" the bill, the bigger the benefit it will have both on public health and the public purse, but the more objectionable it is to all Republicans and a sizable portion of moderate Democrats.  In particular, I worry that the final bill will include an insurance mandate without a meaningful public option; that combination could potentially induce higher prices on insurance policies.

The House vote will supposedly conclude around midnight tonight (Eastern).  It will be interesting to see what happens with Rep. Stupak's abortion amendment and how that influences Democrats either way.
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TheNerdyBee
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« Reply #201 on: November 07, 2009, 11:18 PM »

And the democrats win.

Coincidentally, a republican DID vote for the bill. I think it was a representative of Louisiana, I didn't catch his name on C-SPAN. I'd really like to know who he is, since he apparently has a death wish.
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« Reply #202 on: November 08, 2009, 12:02 AM »

According to the twitter trending topics the reps name is Joseph Cao
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« Reply #203 on: November 08, 2009, 12:54 AM »

So what happens next is in a few weeks the Senate will pass their version of the bill, and then a committee will sit down with both versions and come up with a compromise version of the bill that blends the two. Then THAT bill will have to pass both the House and Senate.

That should happen early next year I believe.
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« Reply #204 on: November 08, 2009, 01:56 AM »

And the democrats win.

Coincidentally, a republican DID vote for the bill. I think it was a representative of Louisiana, I didn't catch his name on C-SPAN. I'd really like to know who he is, since he apparently has a death wish.

Yeah, it was Cao, the Twitter/Facebook outrage is pretty crazy from Conservatives, his primary opponent is going to be incredibly well-funded.

Also, 39 Democrats voted against, was it expected to get that many D's voting against it?
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« Reply #205 on: November 08, 2009, 09:22 AM »

Some democrats are very vulnerable. There has been some discussion that the most vulnerable candidates were released from their obligation to vote for it as soon as they knew they had the minimum votes to pass it, so that the marginal candidates would fare better when they ran for re-election. It's quite common with essential - but divisive - pieces of legislation in many democratic countries.
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OneWinged Angel
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« Reply #206 on: November 08, 2009, 02:47 PM »

It's worth noting that Rep. Cao's district went 75% for Obama in 2008, and he eked out a 49.5-46.8 victory over the D incumbent, William Jefferson.  Yes, the same William Jefferson who took a $100,000 bribe from an undercover FBI agent and then put $90,000 of it into his chest freezer, hidden inside boxes of Boca Burgers.  So while it's nice to see that one GOPer broke ranks with the party to potentially vote his conscience, the politics of reelection likely did play a role in his decision.  Wikipedia notes that John Boehner put out a memo entitled "The Future is Cao" after the 2008 election; I don't imagine he'd say the same thing now.

The abortion amendment I mentioned above passed by a wide margin.  Previous to the amendment, the House bill would have fulfilled the ban on federal funding of abortions by requiring insurers who cover abortions and take federal subsidies for low-income earners to maintain separate accounts for funds that might pay for abortions.  Thus no federal money would be used to pay for any abortions.  The Stupak amendment went further, preventing anyone who receives a subsidy from purchasing a plan that covers abortions.  People have suggested that individuals could purchase a separate abortion insurance policy, but that would have all sorts of problems.
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« Reply #207 on: November 08, 2009, 03:16 PM »

So what happens next is in a few weeks the Senate will pass their version of the bill, and then a committee will sit down with both versions and come up with a compromise version of the bill that blends the two. Then THAT bill will have to pass both the House and Senate.

That should happen early next year I believe.


Looks like Obama is more optimistic than you. He thinks he can get it done by the end of this year.
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« Reply #208 on: November 19, 2009, 01:59 PM »

The New York Times has a nice head to head comparison of the Senate and House plan.

The Senate plan is subject to change of course but I think it'll turn out pretty close to this.  How the ultimate compromise bill will finish up I have no idear.
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« Reply #209 on: November 19, 2009, 02:09 PM »

How do you guys think the Stupak amendment will work out?  On the one hand, I do see the problem that Representatives and Senators would have supporting a bill that could use federal funds to pay for abortion procedures, but on the other, the procedure itself is legal and going into what private insurers must EXCLUDE from their insurance packages seems like it's reaching.
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OneWinged Angel
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« Reply #210 on: Today at 06:15 PM »

Personally I oppose the Stupak amendment and direct everyone to check out the GWU report on it.  The short of it is that the researchers find that the amendment will ultimately lead to all insurance plans removing abortion coverage over time.  Bart Stupak disagrees with their assessment.

As I discussed briefly above, the language that the Stupak amendment replaced would have required insurers who take federal subsidies to maintain separate accounts for money that will pay for abortions and money that won't; insurees would have to pay into the abortion fund out of their own pocket, while the subsidy would go to the non-abortion pool.  This would satisfy the current requirement that no federal money be used to pay for abortions.  Those pushing for the Stupak amendment say that this doesn't go far enough, criticizing the separate money pools as a false division; a dollar in one pool is equivalent to a dollar in the other, they say.  But by this reasoning, federal law should also currently ban anyone who receives government assistance (Social Security disability payments, etc) from having an abortion-- the government has indirectly subsidized their abortion by allowing them enough money to purchase one.  This is absurd on its face.  Maintaining separate pools should be sufficient under current federal law.

As an update on the progress of the bill, the Senate has been debating whether to allow the bill to be debated for the past 8 hours or so.  There will be a procedural vote at about 8pm eastern, requiring 60 votes, on whether to allow the bill to come to the floor for formal debate and amendment.  With Sens. Lincoln and Landrieu announcing early this afternoon that they will vote in favor of debate, the Democrats should have either 60 or 61 votes for this motion (depending on whether Sen. Snowe joins, as she's still open to the bill with modifications).  In short, today we debate whether to debate, tomorrow we debate.

Sens. Lincoln, Landrieu, Nelson, and Lieberman have all said that while they will vote to bring the bill up for debate, they would not vote for it in its current form.  More specifically, there will be another procedural vote (again requiring 60 votes) on whether to end debate; these four senators have said that they will not vote for that motion without changes.  Despite this, the Republicans have made clear that they are treating tonight's vote as a vote in favor of the current health package, in toto.  That is, even though a senator explicitly says that s/he is voting to begin debate only to allow a currently unacceptable bill to be amended, the GOP is going to attack them for supporting the health care bill as is.  This provides further evidence that the Republicans are entirely engaged in a political battle rather than a policy debate.

It seems pretty unlikely at this point that there will be a bill with any form of public option, whether it have a trigger, an opt out clause, or otherwise.  By my reckoning, here's what the swing votes demand in a bill:

- Ben Nelson, D-NE: Needs abortion language at least as strong as Stupak amendment.  Probably opposes opt-out public option, might be open to triggers.

- Joe Lieberman, I-CT: No public option of any form.  No opt-out, no triggers, nothing.  Fundamentally opposed to any form of government insurance plan for any reason in the future.  Insists that any public option will drive up the deficit, in spite of all evidence to the contrary.

- Mary Landrieu, D-LA: Opposes the opt-out, wants a trigger clause for the public option.  Says she's been working with Sen. Snowe on the same.

- Blanche Lincoln, D-AR: Came out against any form of the public option earlier today.  Didn't seem to leave any wiggle room.

Olympia Snowe, R-ME: Opposes the opt-out public option, wants a trigger clause.  Voted for the bill in the Finance Committee, still in play for final passage.

It looks like there are 56 Senators on board for something pretty close to the current Senate bill, with a few small modifications.  The other 39 Republicans are firmly opposed to the bill, no matter how it's modified.  All of the five swing votes above are pretty firm that their vote for cloture is identical to their vote for final passage-- they will filibuster if they intend to vote against passage.  With two of them absolutely against any public option, it's dead.  Harry Reid speculated that Lieberman will turn around, but I don't count on anything from Joe.

My reading is that the Senate bill will have to be significantly watered down to achieve 60 votes.  The final bill will cost more and do less, all for the sake of one or two more votes.  Even if there is no public option, the conservative rhetoric that the Democrats are creating a government takeover of health care will continue.  In conclusion: I'm frustrated.
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angrystring
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« Reply #211 on: Today at 06:51 PM »

My reading is that the Senate bill will have to be significantly watered down to achieve 60 votes.  The final bill will cost more and do less, all for the sake of one or two more votes.  Even if there is no public option, the conservative rhetoric that the Democrats are creating a government takeover of health care will continue.  In conclusion: I'm frustrated.

There are still ways to deal with it.  Because the House bill includes a public option, they may be able to move it through mark-up and some other procedural maneuvers.  And while the Democrats haven't started talking about it, let's not forget that it was the Republicans who threatened to change the Senate rules to eliminate the filibuster because they said the minority party shouldn't be able to block the president's agenda.  If nothing else the GOP tactics in refusing to support even opening debate lends a significant amount of credence to the Democratic claim that the GOP is only interested in playing politics and refusing to offer any real solutions.  Long-term this could be a political win for the Democrats.  Anybody running against an incumbent Republican can point to the fact that the GOP refused to even open debate.  They didn't even want to talk about reform or finding solutions.  In capable hands, that can be strong ammunition during a campaign. 
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