Like many of you, I took a break from the lavish penthouse parties that are my workaday routine to jaunt to my local imax and see Wall-E this weekend.
And I’m here—at least textually—to tell you that it’s not only a wonder of computer graphics, but also a film that dares to stand for something. Wall-E shines some much-needed light and compassion on a largely unexplored sphere of human existence: that of the elderly gay man.
For years, the elderly gay man has been a ghost, a myth, a tale told to disturbed children. We’ve tried to pretend they aren’t out there, puttering around their one-bedroom apartments in tasteful sweater vests.
But let me tell you something: that flamboyant ball of styled hair and liberal sensibilities you see walking down the streets of Hillcrest today is going to get old one day. And then, like many elderly gay men, he’ll spend his days not bothering people, eating breakfast at curbside cafes, and occasionally meeting for sex at big unmarked warehouses downtown.
Which brings us to Wall-E. Naturally, the Nazis over at Disney forced Pixar to subvert their original ideas with an exotic setting and thinly-veiled symbology, but the subtext is clear.
Our story centers on Wall-E, the titular, elderly gay robot. He’s spent seven hundred years collecting interesting trinkets, fastidiously organizing anything that’s out of place, and singing along to old tapes of Hello Dolly.
We can find out a little more about him by analyzing the trailer:
In the opening, we see him helpfully correcting a stranger’s fashion faux pax (notice he never leaves the house without a spare light bulb), and fretfully righting an out-of-place letter “R.”
Next, they drive the point home by showing us his interaction with a cockroach. He shrieks upon seeing it, stamps on it, and then gingerly sighs with remorse for having killed the poor dear. Finding it somehow alive, he feels chagrined rather than pleased, and icily ushers it indoors, where it won’t muss up his koi pond or Japanese water bridge.
They cut away just before he recites an Oscar Wilde quip on the transience of life.
Then we see, in quick succession, the facets of existence that comprise the life of an elderly gay man: a befuddled lack of directional sense, a distrust of tools, curious fascination with women’s undergarments, failure at traditional sports and games, love of shiny things, and, finally, an illogical fear of massive explosions.
In the end, Wall-E just wants his way of life understood and respected. As he infiltrates the world of unfashionably obese straights and tinkers with his bonsai, he asks only that we treat him with the kindness he affords us. Don’t judge, he seems to twitter, gently clasping his robot hands.
Bravo, Pixar, for sharing with us a unique and stunning vision of the life of an aging gay.
NEXT–Eve: Fag hag or post-op transsexual?
When not blogging for Cracked, Michael is moving heavy boxes as head writer and co-founder of Those Aren’t Muskets!
This entry was posted on Wednesday, July 2nd, 2008 at 3:00 pm and is filed under Disney, Gayness, Pixar, The Elderly, Wall-E. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
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May 31st, 2009 at 3:57 pm
It makes perfect sense.
The bonsai.
The lightbulb.
The illogical fear of massive explosions.
THE BONSAI.
How could I have not seen it before?
Oh, that’s right. I never watched Wall-E. Stone me if you will, but I find many Pixar films to be tedious and completely lacking in the whole melodramatic hypocrisy that I so loved about the old Disney movies as a child.
Call me when that chief rat starts singing with front of a chorus of gypsies, talking animals, and animated objects about how he’s going to bang that hot chick or burn her at the stake and THEN we’ll talk.
May 14th, 2009 at 8:04 pm
“if wall-e was gay, why would he love eve? plus, your only reasons were simply steriotypes… false steriotypes.”
OK, I think I finally got it. The entire point of the comments section is so that you guys could actually read about and laugh at the people who get indignant because they either don’t know what a joke is, or they do, but they think that they’re able to arbitrate between what is an isn’t funny on a universal level. Sort of an Andy Kaufman thing so you all can see how your audience reacts on a personal level when they’re too dim to get it, right? Please say it is. Please?
February 10th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Strange, while i understand you were simply trying to make a joke through specious comparisons, i can’t help but feel that this article is actually quite offensive. Were it more of a tongue in cheek kind of humor it could have passed, and in my opinion been funnier, but i just wonder if it is making the assertion (even if accidentally) that homosexuals invariably die alone? I don’t know, maybe i’m being over sensitive here, i just think that it’s kind of a rude article.
February 7th, 2009 at 1:17 am
*sniff*
i might just cry. I absolutely love that movie. But i must say, dude, you know your way around a sentence.
January 27th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
January 26th, 2009 at 5:58 am
your all fucking gayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyys and tinggggggggggg blud
January 2nd, 2009 at 1:27 pm
if wall-e was gay, why would he love eve? plus, your only reasons were simply steriotypes… false steriotypes.
December 26th, 2008 at 7:51 am
By the way, hilarious article. I laughed the whole way through.
December 26th, 2008 at 7:50 am
What the hell is wrong with you people? “But Wall-E ISN’T gay, you got it all wrong!”
Umm, hello? THIS ARTICLE IS A JOKE.
December 24th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Ok, I have to say, even if this article is about a cartoon n being an adult, I am kind of flustered of this whole thing! One, it is a cartoon, why do people have to derive adult like stuff out of it, why can’t people just watch it for what it is, a cartoon, and enjoy it?! Seriously! And, yes I am female, so the writer of this ariticle may say I may not understand ‘gay males’ But throguhout all of my life I have had countless gay male friends, flamming queens, total Betty Crockers! There was nothing straight about them so I have been subjected to the homosexual world a lot. And I love the gay community, so I would not be trying to ‘bash’ this article because it is about ‘gays’
So my point is, Wall E is not gay! He is alone on earth, cleaning garbage. The cockroach is his only friend! The sceen described where he tries to ‘kill’ the cochroach is SO wrong! He shreaks because he is sad he ran over it n scared he killed it! He tells the cochroach to stay in the ‘house’ so he doesn’t get hurt. You can clearly see they are friends when Wall E gives him a twinky to eat/sleep in before bed. So how d you perceive that as not liking him? And Yes, Eve (which Wall E pronounces Eva) is clearly a girl robot. And Wall E falls in love with her instantly. I just do not understand how someone can take a cartoon and make such assumptions about it! Also, the plant is not a Bonsai tree! I don’t knwo where you got that from either? Is the writer of this article watching some weird altered version of Wall E I don’t know about?!
December 2nd, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Matthew sucks.
Yeah, that’s all I had to say.
What, the article?
Um…good grammar. You display an excellent vocabulary, Mr. Swaim. I smile at your jokes.
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:34 pm
You hit the nail right on the head with this one Michael. Wall-E is the most fabulous robot since C-3PO.
December 1st, 2008 at 4:05 am
You’ve GOT to be kidding me. I just watched this film on DVD with my 77 year old gay partner. Neither one of us got ANY of those things out of the movie or even came remotely close to doing so. Think you’re maybe reaching just a few billion lightyears to draw this comparison?
November 24th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Apparently you haven’t seen the movie.
Wall-E obviously falls in love with Eva, the FEMALE robot.
November 4th, 2008 at 4:08 am
Is this a joke?
October 31st, 2008 at 4:26 am
Wow. That was dumb. I was waiting for the punchline but it just never arrived…
October 4th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
this theory is really retarded…
October 1st, 2008 at 11:02 am
combine home purchae with debt consiladation loan…
Oberlin:placements laboriously crawlers clamoring aching …
September 30th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
grant debt relief…
foggier:dignities bravos….
September 10th, 2008 at 8:51 am
Matthew wrote:
“P.S: What is your job description? Movie whiner? Snippet taker? You sure as fuck aren’t a journalist.”
Bad Matthew. You should know better than to expect journalism out of Cracked.
Like another reviewer of Wall-E linked to by Swaim on TAM!, you would have saved a lot of space if you’d just said, “I don’t get it.”
I’m also confused by what you’re implying here:
“Your opinion is as important as mine. It isn’t.”
Were you going for something superficially contradictory, yet profound on a deeper level?
More to the point, you think serious opinions were being expressed here? Please…
It pains me to have to explain this, but Swaim’s style often makes use of wild, patently absurd claims gilded with half-tangents of fabulously circumstantial evidence; and it works, whether or not you, Jack Thompson, or my senile old grandmother agree. That’s something inherent in any brand of comedy.
You might learn to distinguish between a sense of humor that isn’t there and one you simply don’t appreciate. I do.
August 31st, 2008 at 11:43 pm
homeowners renter insurance…
dwell!tasteless:tolerant:…
August 30th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
homeowner insurance with 5000 deductable…
motorized dictate,spoil.healing:fielders:Atlantis …
August 15th, 2008 at 2:14 am
As a kid I always pictured robots to be badazzes like the T-800 from Terminator and all those movies from the `50s where giant robots from outer space came to earth and went around killing people. Not pathetic whiny pansies like the one in I-robot and this little turdling. Seriously Hollywood stop wussing up everything cool.
July 17th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
MercilessFish–so? You say that like it’s a bad thing?
July 16th, 2008 at 1:49 am
A resounding ditto to everything DERP said. Yes, even the no-holds-barred faggot part.
Don’t take the article so seriously - no, Wall-E is not actually about the plight of the homosexual. But yes, it is adorable to imaging the retiring, elderly gay type as a fussy little robot.
July 14th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
*=^g::::p~
Weiner.
July 13th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Gay? Erm I can’t say I see that. Then again, I couldn’t understand the name of the white robot, or most anything the robots said. To me the white robot seemed sorta female. Anyway I think it was more of a .. humans are pigs so we should all clean up the world! movie than anything about gay people.. >.>;
July 12th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
For a long while during the movie, I thought Wall-E was in love with a robot named Steve.
July 12th, 2008 at 9:20 am
As a flaming, no holds barred faggot I think you guys are being too sensitive and this article is fucking hilarious.
Also Firefox doesn’t recognize faggot as a word. I find that offensive.
July 11th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Armitage112 wants to fuck robots and is defensive whenever he perceives a slight.
This is all true. I can prove it with science.
July 10th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
You’re an idiot if you’re serious, or you’re lame if you’re trying to do comedy. Any 4-year-old who sees this can tell it’s the sweetest love story to hit the screen in a millenia. And this stupid article keeps getting its stupid title on Cracked.com’s front page? If it’s because people like me keep commenting and therefore bumping it up, I apologize. If it’s because Cracked.com doesn’t have anything funnier or wittier to put on its front page, I weep for the site and everyone behind it. This is uber-lame.
July 10th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
I find these articles very boring. In my opinion, they consist of either slandering on par with schoolyard name-calling, or satire that is deeply without wit of any kind. Congratulations, guys. You are so out of ideas you compared a robot to an old gay man, even though there was really no sort of evidence to suggest it, instead squeezing every stereotype out of the book and attaching it half-heartedly to a kid’s film character. Did you really think anyone would laugh at this? I haven’t seen the film yet, so don’t jump to conclusions that I own a lifesize WALL-E and make sweet love to it or anything.
While I’m at it, I feel the same goes for your semi-regular videocast of that guy who talks to a camera about film stars that piss him off, taking snippets of interviews and trailers and applying no sense of humor whatsoever. Your opinion is as important as mine. It isn’t. Also, if you are going to satirize or criticize, at least bring humor to the table. I assume you were going for black comedy - you failed, guy. You just look and sound hung over.
P.S: What is your job description? Movie whiner? Snippet taker? You sure as fuck aren’t a journalist.
July 10th, 2008 at 11:55 am
—–Blackgirlsconnect.com—– ? It is really a funny and interesting place to date attractive girls or hot guys. Many hottie videos and photos at this site, you can enjoy latest interesting videos or talk about hot topic with other friends. I’ve met many thoughtful singles who were trying to find true love.
July 10th, 2008 at 7:05 am
Recently, quite a few celebrities and pro athletes were said to appear on the millionaire luxury club “R I C H L O V I N G.C O M ” to hook up with hot girls, ladies, models… OMG!!! Are these famous guys fond of internet dating for now?? Maybe they are indeed so rich that they feel boring sometimes to need new things? It was reported on MSN Charlie Sheen has found his girl there last May.
July 10th, 2008 at 5:56 am
What complete nonsence…I think the guy who wrote this article is seriously clutching at straws. I can’t see anything, apart from that big cock in Wall-e’s ass, that would make me think that he was gay! Oh no…sorry, that isn’t there!
July 10th, 2008 at 2:13 am
I saw many people are talking about this. They are discussing this on the forum of black dating site called blackbbwmeet dot com. Maybe you may meet your life partner there if you have a look
July 10th, 2008 at 12:45 am
Wow, this was the most lame-brained and unfunny article I’ve ever read on cracked. Pathetic…
July 10th, 2008 at 12:33 am
BlowMe, the real question is: Do they love?
July 9th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Do robots age? Like at: http://www.NeilsNotes.com
July 9th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
You can hook up with Wall-E on gayrobotwhoopie.com
July 9th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Gay? So terrible! I don’t like gay! I never met gay in my dating time on a celebrities singles dating site, called RichMingle.com or something like this.
July 9th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
This is kind of pathetic. If it was funny it might have washed away some of the heterosexist vibes. But it wasn’t funny at all. And to top it off, you end it with a nice bit of cissexism. Nice going..
July 9th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Wall-E is actually an aging lez-bot.
(eejits!)
July 9th, 2008 at 11:46 am
this is literally the stupidest shit I ever read
July 9th, 2008 at 10:44 am
I can’t deny I’m oh so looking forward to seeing Wall-E, but I am impressed that you’ve half way conviced me of is aged poof antics.
More evidence to the case is that other robot that turns up. A girl robot. And by the rule that every woman needs a gay man friend (don’t ask me where this rule is from… please) they develop a relationship. I’m hoping for will and grace references. But my condolances to the girl robot. she was so desperate for gay man robot love she crossed to another planet whos sole inhabitant of that description was 700 years old and rusty.
July 9th, 2008 at 9:34 am
“Oh, and Oscar Wilde was gay but he was also drunk and Irish. It meant he’d shag men but he liked to fight them afterwards.”
I almost accidentally choked on chewing gum reading that. Thanks for the laugh, but not for nearly killing me.
July 9th, 2008 at 9:01 am
…I think this is actually pretty ridiculous and I’m the biggest supporter of LGBs that I know. I think that the symbolism you’re picking up on is imagined and that your linking it to an elderly GAY man is unfair. It could be elderly but I think that by trying to make Wall-E into a symbol for a gay man is really actually prejudiced. You’re fitting it into too many stereo types and let’s face it, yes there are stereotypical gays out there, but certainly not all of them. If anything, Wall-E represents a lonely person, being, with OCD and an interest in what was simply because there is no more of it. Come back with more facts instead of speculation.
July 9th, 2008 at 8:03 am
It’s so great .
I would record it on my page:sugarmommydate.com
July 9th, 2008 at 4:18 am
do you know __http://seekingbbw.com _______All Plussize/BBW/BHM singles and admirers, meet together here! Then it will be easier for you to find friends, soulmates, romance&love! The best and largest community for plus-size singles and admirers in the world.
July 9th, 2008 at 4:15 am
He is busy with his online dating thing, His profile was seen at dating site “R I C H L O V I N G.C O M” yesterday, where the successful and affluent singles and hot girls and models to hook up for Hot Love, Flirt and Sexy Dating! A rumor goes that he is dating a young single woman on that site.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Sorry, there’s only one aging, gay robot out there in my opinion, and his name is C-3PO.
And like janedeaux pointed out, there’s an aging, gay federal agent out there who might take issue with your use of the term “symbology.” Yeah, it’s a real word, it just doesn’t sound like one.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
Ok, must people be so damned afraid that they see gayness in everything? I’ve seen it twice now and there is nothing in the movie to really suggest it’s anything more than a really good movie about 2 robots falling in love..
July 8th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
i want to tell you my first-hand experience.I have found my best friend and my true Love.
I have found my match on this site, uniformedmatch*com. It was an instant connection for
rich women seeking handsome and charming men.Good luck to all who are looking for true and
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July 8th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Oh, c’mon people….JUST back from WALL-E with the whole fam-damly. Too cute, loved it and geez, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar!
July 8th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
fuck that. wall-e is PWNSOME
July 8th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
I think the word you are looking for is symbolism. Sssssymbolism.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
i hate coldplay.
July 8th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
@John: Oh god, so I wasn’t the only one who saw him for what he truly is.
July 8th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
44th, bitches!
July 8th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
[...] click here for the full story over at cracked.com [...]
July 8th, 2008 at 11:39 am
not first!
July 8th, 2008 at 8:46 am
dont forget the robot loves to say ‘cock-cock-cock-cock-cock-cock-cock-cock’ as evident at the end of the tv trailer
July 8th, 2008 at 8:17 am
do you know __seekingbbw.c o m_______All Plussize/BBW/BHM singles and admirers, meet together here! Then it will be easier for you to find friends, soulmates, romance&love!
July 7th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
That last post was in poor taste. I would hereby like to apologize to Ian McKellan, half-wits, janitors and sausage collectors for my slanderous comment.
July 7th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Ian McKellan is not gay. He was just being friendly with me. Friendly like a kindly half-wit janitor who wants to show you his sausage collection.
July 7th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
If you have seen LOTR or Xmen you have have seen an elderly gay man. Ian Mckellen is gay.
July 7th, 2008 at 2:16 am
Wall-E was dope.
I don’t think i’ve ever actually seen an elderly gay man. Seems like the kinda thing that would be worth seeing, if for no other reason than to get his whole view on those “crazy young homos these days”
July 6th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Let me speak to your fact checker–gays don’t live beyond 35! :[
July 6th, 2008 at 3:13 am
h0m0 b0t
July 5th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Can I point out that this movie is currently rated both 9.0 and 8.7 (somehow) on IMDB, and is #14 on the top 250 of all time, right above Goodfellas?
July 5th, 2008 at 9:15 am
$*^&(#$^ I am the big beauty queen on __plusmeet.com__ LOL….
July 5th, 2008 at 3:06 am
The only aging queen I care about would have to be Brian May.
July 4th, 2008 at 7:50 am
Especially when Bjorn goes into that screaming metal guitar solo!
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:58 pm
“You are the dancing queen, young and sweet, only seventeen Dancing queen, feel the beat from the tambourine You can dance, you can jive, having the time of your life
See that girl, watch that scene, dig in the dancing queen”
Man that song FUCKING rocks hard man!!!!!!!!
July 3rd, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Maybe your heart, unlike Wall-E or Wally, isn’t a dancing queen.
July 3rd, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Did you just put Abba in the same catigory as Priest? Srlsy…. I like Abba and I like priest but abba hard rock?…
July 3rd, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Those options both suck. Why can’t my heart sound like something hard rock, like Led Zeppelin, Judas Priest, or Abba?
July 3rd, 2008 at 5:02 pm
I think it means your heart’s stuck in the 90s.
Unless it’s being ironic, then your heart’s a hipster.
July 3rd, 2008 at 3:38 pm
My heart keeps singing I Wanna Sex You Up by Color Me Badd. I’m not sure what that means.
July 3rd, 2008 at 3:29 pm
I listened to my heart, it says “stop eating grease, you’re fucking killing me you idiot.”
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:10 pm
meh
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:57 pm
“I act like that. I’m not gay.”
Yeah you are. Maybe you just don’t know it yet.
Listen to your heart…it will tell you the truth. Can you hear it? It totally says you’re gay.
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:00 am
[...] > Blog > » Los Angeles: Home To Movie Stars, The Wayans Brothers, And Me « Wall-E: The Touching Tale Of An Aging Gay Robot Los Angeles: Home To Movie Stars, The Wayans Brothers, And Me by Michael [...]
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:46 am
While not exactly the same thing, Ed Wood, the worst film director of all time and famed cross dresser made several combat jumps wearing bra and pantys under his uniform. He was terrified he was going to get shot and someone would find out his secret. True story.
July 3rd, 2008 at 6:32 am
“Take your aging queen for example, before he went into hiding in the art houses, gay brothels and became a sweater vest enthusiast, he could have stormed the beach at Normandy and be a winner of the Medal of Honor or the Victorian Cross for all the hell we know.”
I would pay to see that. Everyone else is trying to secure the hilltop pillboxes on Omaha Beach and he’s thinking that it needs a makeover.
July 2nd, 2008 at 10:28 pm
“He’s spent seven hundred years collecting interesting trinkets, fastidiously organizing anything that’s out of place, and singing along to old tapes of Hello Dolly.”
I act like that. I’m not gay.
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:35 pm
@ Ross , Yeah if you put it that way.
My point was more along the lines of you really don’t know who you’re starting shit with until it’s to late sometimes. Also gay really has nothing to do with the ability to kick somebodies ass.
Take your aging queen for example, before he went into hiding in the art houses, gay brothels and became a sweater vest enthusiast, he could have stormed the beach at Normandy and be a winner of the Medal of Honor or the Victorian Cross for all the hell we know.
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:48 pm
You’re not even close. He uses the storm as an excuse to trick the girl into going to his home, drugs her into unconsciousness right after she spurns his physical advance, ties her up, and takes her bound/comatose body on “dates.” He’s a date rapist. Not gay.
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Was the playful jab at gay Wall-E’s sweater vest a subtle way of testing the water, Swaim?
July 2nd, 2008 at 6:00 pm
I would LOVE a gay grandpa. Especially if I ever decided to bring back some retro style. He would give me all the right tips.
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Maybe if we cleared up the difference between an aging queen and an aging gay.
An aging queen has only survived because he’s spent his adult life hiding in arthouses, gay brothels and a tastefully decorated apartment.
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:44 pm
wall-e sucks.
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:43 pm
THE BALLS!
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:43 pm
wall-e suck balls
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:42 pm
wall-e sucks the balls
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:35 pm
“So Wall-E is either an aging gay man or a stereotypical elderly Asian kung fu master from a Hong Kong movie?
Surprisingly only one of those two groups could kick your ass.”
One thing I have learned in life is a gay man is still a man and completely capable of kicking
your ass.
An old man, straight or gay, is much more dangerous than a young man because an old man who can’t fight as well anymore will kill you straight up to keep from getting his ass kicked.
Plus the fact if he was an openly gay man who has made it to old age , you bet your ass he’s been in some fights and is every bit as dangerous as elderly Asian kung fu master.
July 2nd, 2008 at 5:04 pm
So Wall-E is either an aging gay man or a stereotypical elderly Asian kung fu master from a Hong Kong movie?
Surprisingly only one of those two groups could kick your ass.
Oh, and Oscar Wilde was gay but he was also drunk and Irish. It meant he’d shag men but he liked to fight them afterwards.
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:21 pm
But he’s just so adorable. Prerequisite for a Disney/Pixar movie, yes, but rarely seen in elderly gay men.
July 2nd, 2008 at 4:13 pm
“Coy pond”? Koi pond, surely? Unless it’s just shy.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:58 pm
My gas is out of control. Are there any aged homosexuals with the know how to get out these stubborn skid marks?
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Swaim, I don’t know how you’re doing it but please stop raiding my picture documents for you articles. That is my Grandpa and his delightful poodle Mr. Prancy Pants and MY GRANDPA IS NOT GAY.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:36 pm
first