Smells Like A Gross Exaggeration
So VH1 compiled its list of top 100 songs of the 90’s, and wouldn’t you know it, Nirvana’s Smells Like Teen Spirit topped the list. How surprising. Living through Nirvana’s adulation while it was occurring was annoying enough, but watching Cobain rise to the status of a Lennon or Hendrix in death borders on unbearable.
Don’t get me wrong, “Smells Like Teen Spirit” is a damn catchy tune. And in their short time Nirvana was able to put together a string of fine pop rock songs.
But they didn’t do anything that hadn’t been done before. And Cobain never pretended he did, openly acknowledging that Smells Like Teen Spirit was his attempt to write a Pixies song. At other times, he referred to Nirvana as the Cheap Trick of the 90’s . Some have said that was an attempt a humility. Others say it’s proof that this depressed martyr didn’t understand the extent of his genius. I disagree. I think it sums up Nirvana pretty well. Both groups were fronted by blonde-haired, blue-eyed pretty boys who penned some simple, straight-forward pop rock songs. And, hey, there’s nothing wrong with that. I like Cheap Trick. Nirvana too.
But Nirvana’s main accomplishment was to make a style of music —they neither invented nor expanded— cool. They made it okay again to be lo-fi and aggressive, and they did it in a way The Pixies or Screaming Trees or Mudhoney couldn’t. Because Curt Kobain was cool. He had a cool attitude. And, most importantly, he was really good-looking — something noticeably lacking from some of the aforementioned bands. I mean, Christ, which is Cobain and which is Brad Pitt?
So, I’m sorry, but Cobain doesn’t get Lennon or Hendrix status. I will put him in league with Jim Morrison, but then again, that’s another guy whose legend is based on looks and personal charisma at least as much, if not more, than the music.
___
Gladstone writes for Cracked and others. Go to Wayne Gladstone Lives in Maine to see all his published stuff, links to his other worthless endeavors, and his full name and state of residence.
December 17th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
If Cobain really looked that good, he could’ve done a LOT better than Courtney Love. Chris Cornell probably would’ve gotten laid the fastest, if all the frontmen of the grunge era weren’t famous and were at some party.
But I really must disagree, Cobain was a great songwriter, lyricist, and guitarist. Yeah he was pretty cool, but again he was a a great songwriter, lyricist, and guitarist. In my mind, that was why he was so cool (same goes for Hendrix).
Also, “straight-forward pop rock songs”? Listen to “Rape Me” “All Apologies” or pretty much anything that wasn’t on their album Nevermind.
December 18th, 2007 at 7:24 am
Rape Me and All Apologies? I like both songs, but why aren’t those straight foward pop?
4/4 time and just a few chords. You mean lyrically? I was talking mostly musically.
December 18th, 2007 at 8:29 am
I’m with Gladstone. Nirvana wouldn’t have the status they do today if Cobain hadn’t died in the manner he did.
Do you know anyone who has ever taken part in one of these polls though? They might as well just make them up.
For the record, the top 10 songs of all time should consist entirely of the Rocky IV soundtrack. You know I’m right.
December 18th, 2007 at 10:12 am
Perhaps you’re right Gladstone…but let me ask this: which song would you list as the best of the 90’s, and how would you make your decision? I imagine that (and don’t get me wrong, I don’t particularly care about VH1) they selected the song on a variety of criteria, including most influential song of the 90’s. Love it or hate it, that dubious honor would undeniably go to SLTS. Furthermore, while I wouldn’t even say that SLTS is Nirvana’s best song, I would say that they were without doubt one of the best bands of the 90’s, even though almost all their songs were the same formula, even though Cobain didn’t even really seem to put two shits of an effort into most of them. They still have a ratio of good songs to bad songs that far outstrips most of the crap that was released in (especially the late) 90’s.
December 18th, 2007 at 10:21 am
I really liked his modesty too, he was at least honest enough to stick to what he knew, instead of trying to play an overinflated rock star ego.
My best quote from him; “I sometimes like to go into the Salvation Army store and find a little treasure. That’s what makes me happy.”
Unfortunatly he then said that he couldn’t even go to the Salvation Army store because of the thousands of teenagers pressing up against the glass. Honestly though, when was the last time someone famous was genuinely charitable and modest like that?
December 18th, 2007 at 10:46 am
I totally agree with Gladstone here. And no, Kurt was NOT a great guitarist. He was proficient at best. Now, if you want to talk about geniuses in Nirvana, talk about Dave Grohl. He’s a damn fine drummer, and a good guitarist (much better than Kurt was), and a good singer (again, better than Kurt). Lyrical genius is debatable so I won’t join in that discussion. Needless to say, Nirvana doesn’t do much for me. If you want to talk about great and talented bands from the 90’s, Soundgarden would go near the top of my list. Sure, Chris Cornell is a handsome MF, but also a great singer, and very few guitarists of the era can top Kim Thayill when it comes to maniacal shred.
December 18th, 2007 at 10:58 am
Holy crap. I write something, almost solely to piss off Nirvana fans and i get some of the most lucid, well-written comments in Cracked history.
Ass master is right. In truth, in terms of influence, you might have to go with that song for symbolic reasons.
Aeryn is right Grohl is amazing. Cornell is a sexy MF. And soundgarden is the most impressive Seattle band.
December 18th, 2007 at 11:20 am
Aeryn:
Better guitarist, sure. Better singer…
Are you fucking serious? Kurt proved in Unplugged that he had the chops in live performances, and he had one of the most distinctive voices in rock history. While that doesn’t necessarily mean the best voice, I would also argue that he did indeed have one of the best voices. Guy could scream better than anybody, and many have tried to duplicate his style…and the few that manage to do so are unoriginal wankers.
As for better songwriter, Kurt had more talent at this in one greasy hair than Grohl has displayed in his entire career to date. While they’re OK tunes, I can’t really say any of the Foo Fighters songs are particularly memorable, or skillful. Nirvana tunes, while not particularly skillful either, are undeniably memorable, or at least ‘catchy’ if you prefer.
Actually, Nirvana did have some really interesting B sides that are worth checking out….
December 18th, 2007 at 11:41 am
Something In The Way gives me goosebumps. The Nevermind album version rather than the rather choppy Unplugged version.
December 18th, 2007 at 11:45 am
lol, your name is wayne.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Why even bother commenting on a stupid VH1 Top-100 Special anyway? They’re all the same. They should just do “VH1’s Top 100 VH1 Top 100 Specials Special”. Then they can recycle the highlights (a.k.a. the same stupid comments) over and over and over again.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Just a minor point: Kurt Cobain looks more like Ewen MacGregor (in the movie Velvet Goldmine).
See: http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger2/7472/2410/1600/curt06.jpg
You may now continue arguing about Nirvana’s musical importance.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
Disagree kingmonkey, sir. If i were a better blogger I’d find courtney’s quote about how much the two look alike. of course, aside from taking effort, I’m not sure anything Ms. Love says actually proves anything, so there’s that, too.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
I am going to sound incredibly lame here, but Kurt had the power to elicit emotion with his voice. Anger, despair, frustration, sadness…and that was before Nirvana Unplugged. The first time I heard his version of ‘Where did you sleep last night?’ it was like a punch in the gut. You don’t have to be technically gifted to convey emotion, in fact sometimes an excess of skill can get in the way. He had a gift.
I personally classify him with Lennon and Hendrix, though the comparison is an apples and oranges kind of thing. Lumping him with Morrison is unfair, in my opinion, since the appeal of the Doors lies at least as much in their sound (e.g. organ) as in the lyrics, and Jim didn’t play much of anything. The type of personality cult that formed around both Jim and Kurt is, I agree, quite similar.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
Well, so far it s a good 12 years later and we are still talking about the misunderstood “genius” of Cobain. And I guess that says something in our ADD culture, not sure what though. I always liked Soundgarden and Pearl Jam better, and for the most part I was way more into the Beastie Boys and Rage then Nirvana. They had some good songs, but nothing great.
Morrison was a way better lyricist and legend in his own time then pre-emo Kurt Cobain. And Morrison was just as humble as Cobain. He refused to go on stage until the announcer introduced them as “The Doors” and not JM & The Doors. Plus, he was known as one of the biggest mercy fucks of his time. Cobain is no where near Morrison. Shit, now that i think about it, I put Cobain’s death somewhere around the Sublime guy’s death (another overrated band.)
But then again, this whole blog is based on a fucking VH1 show, who are all too ready to anoint Maroon 5 as the voice of the millennium.
December 18th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Gladstone,
You are retarded. Go listen to kid rock ya poser fool
God Bless Nirvana
December 18th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
I also agree with the point about Kurt’s ability to convey emotion. Kurt’s vocals are definitely 50% of Nirvana’s success and although I have far more respect for Grohl, that’s just something that Dave can never touch.
Strange, there’s a lot of disagreement and yet i agree with most of the comments. Especially the one about me being retarded.
December 18th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
I would argue that 50% of Gladstone’s success is due to his retardedness.
December 18th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
I always thought he sounded like he was trying to take a massive shit.
BUT I guess some people are into that.
December 18th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Stephen King murdered Kurt Cobain.
December 18th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
well… Nirvana played noise after Nevermind and Bleach was almost noise too (by noise i mean a genere of music)
most ppl just “digged” Nevermind and moved on
i fact In Utero was not relesed in its Steve Albini mix becouse the DGrecords didnt think it would sell
sooo… i totaly disagree with the “pop rock” thing… and i can back it up even more, but i am just too lazy right now
December 18th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Not every band can be Rush, Gladstone, and for that I extend my sincere apologies
December 18th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
I depends how you define pop. I defining it in the conventional sense of time signature, chord choice, and melody line.
And I did say pop rock. Not pop, pop.
And what a record co. thinks will sell is no indication of whether something is pop.
December 18th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
I agree that Kurt Cobain wasn’t a great guitarist in the sense that Jimi Hendrix was a great guitarist.
That said, I haven’t heard anybody play guitar the way Cobain did. Forget about most of the album tracks, and watch a live performance. Cobain played with an incredible ferocity. Nobody else has ever sounded like that. I remember reading something about that tiny pony-tailed guitar player from the old Saturday Night Live band. After one of Nirvana’s SNL performances he was quoted as saying something like “holy shit, can that guy ever play!”.
And that ponytail guy from SNL is the world’s foremost musicologist.
December 18th, 2007 at 9:26 pm
Say what you like about Kurt Cobain, he had a pretty clear picture of what kind of music he was creating. Cheap Trick? Bingo. Granted, a CT for the 90’s would have to be “edgier” but that’s what all the shreiking and mumbling was about.
December 18th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
I am too tired to post much of a reply, but, Gladstone:0, Nirvana listeners:24. Something about Kurt’s songs are raw and organic to me, and yes I do think there’s so much emotion conveyed, even at the age of 14 I could appreciate it, and to this day, having stopped listening to most of what I listened to then, I still love and appreciate Nirvana’s music. I don’t know what I would have done during my teen years had I not had this suicidal bastard to relate to through song.
December 18th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
Well, I’m inclined to agree with Gladstone, even though Nirvana is one of my favourite bands. I do, however, disagree with “All Apologies” being pop. It’s too abrasive to be considered pop in my opinion.
Nirvana did, however, do a great service to music by ending the era of dumb, misogynist hair metal. The only real problem I have with what Nirvana did to music is the fact that Kurt’s death created a wave of bad Nirvana/Pearl Jam imitators (Silverchair, Bush, etc.)
Anyway, SLTS is one of the worst songs Nirvana ever put out, no matter what any posers say, and the best song of the 90s tag should go to something by Soundgarden or Pearl Jam.
PS, clOne: In Utero was reproduced by someone else because Kurt wanted it even More abrasive.
December 18th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
Anya, did you read the comments. most people here agree with me??? And the post was not about whether Nirvana had good songs, it was about whether Cobain deserves a place among the rock greats of all time.
December 18th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
I never really saw anything tremendous about Kurt or Nirvana as a whole. Yeah, their albums were pretty catchy and lyrically they were above the fold but if it weren’t for his death they wouldn’t have near the press they do now. Personally I think Radiohead was the greatest band of the 90s and their singles from OK Computer managed to attract an audience while still being completely original, from “Karma Police” which had a very unusual chord progression, to “Paranoid Android” which included a 7/8 breakdown along with, once again, a very unusual song structure.
But like someone else said, its VH1. For God’s sake “The Humpty Dance” was on the list. I’m sure when they roll around to doing the best songs of the 00’s “My Humps” will have a prime spot on the list.
December 18th, 2007 at 11:36 pm
The thing about Cobain, I always thought, was not so much that Nirvana’s first three albums were that amazing, but that people thought he had the *potential* to be legendary, a potential that now must go unfulfilled.
Imagine if Thom Yorke had died just after “The Bends” was released. Think of all the great Radiohead music that would never have existed. That, I take it, is analogous to the situation with Cobain, in some people’s eyes. Maybe Nevermind was their Pablo Honey, and In Utero was their Bends. Then we’ve all been robbed of Nirvana’s OK Computer! Shit that sucks.
Of course, it’s also possible that Nirvana would have ended up less like Radiohead and more like Oasis, in which case dying was the best thing that happened to Cobain’s artistic reputation. Maybe Liam Gallagher should have kicked the bucket in 1996.
December 19th, 2007 at 12:01 am
Wow, great comments.
Best Album of the 90’s: Yeah, I’d have to go with OK Computer. Sadly, I haven’t heard an album that good since.
December 19th, 2007 at 12:05 am
Jason C. has a good point, and I’ll say the same thing, but simpler: Nirvana didn’t put out enough albums to be as great as people imagine they were. Sure their next album could have been like OK Computer, but then again, it also could have been garbage.
Nirvana’s big contribution to music was to bear the flag for a new standard of musical achievement in pop rock, and for that, I salute them.
December 19th, 2007 at 12:14 am
Cobain was a poor singer and guitarist. I don’t care how “ferociously” you play or if some guy from SNL compliments you, you can’t be that great when your drummer has to help you with guitar parts. As for the vocals, I guess it’s subjective, much like the lyrics, but to me he just mumbles and groans unappealingly.
Nirvana fan boys should get over it. I’d enjoy myself infinitely times more listening to Cherry Pie than to any Nirvana song.
December 19th, 2007 at 12:58 am
Kurt had a gift to combine abrasive, wailing vocals and guitar with a melody. Listen to many new “loud” songs, the guitars seem to just mix in with everything else in a plastic, thin, boring kind of way. Nirvana’s songs were definately Nirvana. Not really much “hey, is this The Fray or Snow Patrol” going on. MTV Unplugged was fucking awesome, and showed how talented the band was (it only took one take!). I would probably put MTV Unplugged and Modest Mouse’s Lonesome Crowded West tied at number one personally.
As for the song list, I thought Come As You Are was better than SLTS among their “popular” songs.
December 19th, 2007 at 7:03 am
You “lived through it”? Don’t you remember what was dominating the airwaves back then??? R.E.M. was putting out edgy tunes like “Shiny Happy People” (I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard a band selling out referred to as “doing the R.E.M. thing” - that was the time), Extreme… EXTREME… was reeling off hit after hit, and even Bryan Adams was still blowing hard from north of the border.
It was unbearable to turn on the radio - frustration and anger ruled the land. Then came “Smells Like Teen Spirit”.
Nirvana broke through and changed the landscape… if only for a little while. Finally, the CDs we were passing around and listening to were getting airtime… I could turn on the car stereo without wanting to kick in the dashboard. It took the record executives MONTHS to get over their fear and figure out how to crapify the whole genre.
We were Generation X and we were angry… no idea why really to this day, but we were PISSED! For just one shining moment we grabbed hold of the culture and flipped the bird in the Boomers general direction. And for all this, “Smells Like Teen Spirit” will always be atop my “Best of the 90’s” lists. Thank you, Kurt. Thank you.
I’m going to go break something for old times’ sake now.
December 19th, 2007 at 8:29 am
Yes. It took Kurt’s death to realize that Bush and Silverchair were much more marketable to the idiots that now think Timbaland is the very finest culture has to offer.
December 19th, 2007 at 9:59 am
Well the REAL argument here should be what is the best GRUNGE song of all time? This limited genre does not provide all that much. Most purists will give you the following five choices:
Smells Like T.S.
Jeremy
Black Hole Sun
Dirt
Plush
In my opinion, “Jeremy”, and almost anything by Pearl Jam is superior. Not that I’m a huge PJ fan by any means, but they are truly the Rolling Stones to Nirvana’s Beatles. Listen to “Jeremy”, for example. It’s more than just a random series of “angsty” lyrics such as the ones that populate SLTS, “Jeremy” is a story, it has history, and its a chilling one at that. The song is complex and intricate, more so than other PJ hits like the straight forward “Evenflow” or the ubiquitous “Alive”. Even the video is freakin’ fantastic. So all you four power chord loving, fans of mumbling go ahead and praise SLTS. I’ll stick with “Jeremy spoke in class today.”
December 19th, 2007 at 10:20 am
OK, well Soundgarden is my favorite grunge band ever if that word even has meaning, but I think Black Hole Sun — a great song — doesn’t even belong in the genre. In place of Dirt, I’d put Would on your list.
STP — a talented band– only pretended to be grunge as long as it was marketable and were just imitating Pearl Jam with Plush so I can’t abide that on the list.
It depends how you define grunge, but I’d have to put Smashing Pumpkins Today on that list of yours.
For Soundgarden, I’d throw Rusty Cage on that list.
Best grunge song? I might have to go with Hunger Strike from Temple of the Dog.
At the time, I thought Pearl Jam were superior to Nirvana. Nevertheless, Kurts been dead for over a decade and yet Nirvana still has 3 good albums to Pearl Jam’s two.
December 19th, 2007 at 10:33 am
It’s very nice to see people
a) Giving credit to bands that deserve it, and
b) bashing bands that deserve it BAD.
To those of you who argued that a song from OK Computer should be given the honor, I would almost agree with you, in that when it comes to skillfully (and artfully) constructed music, Radiohead is one of the best out there. That being said however, while I’m sure most of you won’t agree with this next statement, I would have to argue that Radiohead didn’t really peak until after OK Computer, amazing as that album was, simply because they hadn’t fully developed their ideas yet. The greatest thing about Radiohead is their capacity more than other bands to write songs that are entities in themselves, and not at all formulaic. This ability wasn’t fully developed until after OK Computer.
Having written music (of various sorts) myself, even while it might have sucked, I can personally attest that it is MUCH harder to write something simple and good (i.e. in the style of Nirvana) than something complex and good. Many musicians in all genres use technical skill as a crutch to cover up lack of talent. Not saying that is the case with the bands people mention here as alternative choices to the ‘distinction’ bestowed by VH1, but it would definately elevate Cobain’s raw talent above many of them in my opinion.
December 19th, 2007 at 12:14 pm
Hey Gladstone,
You really are actually a for real Rush fan aren’t you?
December 19th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
No, I’m not a for real Rush fan. I like a few Rush songs, but I dislike more and think they might be my favorite band to make fun of. I have a couple of McSweeney’s pieces that do that.
BTW, assmaster3000, definitely disagree about Radiohead reaching their peak post OK Computer. I respect Kid A, but do not think it superior, and after that…
But I agree totally about the difficulty of writing a simple memorable melody. Doing that successfully is the real definition of pop. And Cobain was, indeed, very good at that.
It’s possible both to respect Cobain and still be annoyed about the godlike status he is given now. I know you know that, am3k.
December 19th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
I find it hard to argue with you about OK Computer Gladstone, as Subterranean Homesick Alien is probably one of my favorite songs period. However, I wasn’t talking about Kid A. While I too respect it, I think it needed some serious editing.
Amnesiac had some good songs, but overall was fairly weak. Hail To the Thief….damn what a good album. So varied in tone and mood, and each song unique. While not all are great, or even good, most are at the very least well constructed, and some, like Backdrifts capture all of the wicked sound that Radiohead has always possessed and spun it into a much more interesting framework than most of their earlier songs, even ones from OK Computer. There are numerous other examples throughout the album. If you haven’t already done so, I would suggest revisiting that album. To me it is the perfect fusion of their earlier ‘pop’ier sound with their later experimental themes
In Rainbows I found to be a big disappointment really. After 3 or so years, I expected more. Perhaps it was the lack of pressure or BS from a record label that made it so tepid and without any sort of edge, as the band had no one to really answer to or rebel against.
December 19th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
My apologies for rambling off topic….
December 19th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
@Jorcoga: you heard the Albini mix?
i liked it better than the “final” version, in fact they cleaned the distortions, increased vocal volume etc. which means “made it more apealing to a wider audience” in my book
anyway, why invite Albini (aka the god of noise) if your not going to make it sound like noise?
and why did they remove Moist Vagina & Verse Chorus Verse (sappy) from the album?
either way, the first mix was faaar more abrasive
December 19th, 2007 at 6:23 pm
It may just be the initial blush of the months following a new release, but I think my favorite Radiohead album could well be In Rainbows.
December 20th, 2007 at 9:16 am
More likely you’re just deliriously happy you didn’t actually have to pay for it, Swaim.
December 20th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Dammit, Swaim, I was all set to call you a stupid whore, but then I listened to it again and it’s growing on me like a sexy cancer. (I think stole that joke from somewhere, but I don’t remember where.)
December 21st, 2007 at 10:57 am
Nah, I have to disagree… I think “Spoonman” is the best Soundgarden song ever.
Top 90’s?… well, the non-inclusion of OK Computer and Loveless on that list is grounds for immediate execution by chainsaw.
December 22nd, 2007 at 8:54 pm
Best Soundgarden song ever? I’d have to go with The Day I Tried To Live.
Best Radiohead, I’d have to go with My Iron Long
December 23rd, 2007 at 3:07 am
Soundgarden like suicide and Mad season River Of Deceit, my two number one. lol
December 23rd, 2007 at 8:25 am
Like Suicide, yeah. The acoustic version is great too.
January 7th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
In 2007, Cobain would probably be living in Miami, down the street from Gloria Estefan and Madonna—all of them ‘flavors of the month’, all of them passe’. Telling the difference between a photo of Cobain and a photo of Pitt? Cobain’s the one whose face is distributed on the ceiling. What a dumbass—enough of this ‘tortured artist’ BS. Keith RIchards and Eric Clapton have more talent in their STOOLS than Kurt Cobain and Nirvan ever did, or could.
February 2nd, 2008 at 5:45 am
windows vista sound themes…
yes indeed……
February 26th, 2008 at 1:22 am
I agree with everyone, especially windows vista sound themes, I think he made some excellent points.
February 26th, 2008 at 3:55 am
Way to get off topic boys.
February 26th, 2008 at 3:57 am
I still would have banged Kurt Cobain, which is way more than I can say for Thom Yorke.
Kurt wins.
February 26th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Mack said: “Nirvana fan boys should get over it. I’d enjoy myself infinitely times more listening to Cherry Pie than to any Nirvana song.”
Wow, Mack…way to completely discredit everything else you just said.
“Cherry Pie”? By WARRANT?
What’s the back length on your mullet anyway?
February 27th, 2008 at 3:32 am
Thanks thanks thanks thanks.
I would be able to deal with the fact that a ton of people believe that Cobain IS, indeed, a legend, if I wasn’t browbeaten within an inch of my sanity when I say that I never really cared for Nirvana either way. Sometimes I like to listen to their songs, other times I change the station when they come on. Honestly, I’ve always liked The Foo Fighters better. That’s usually the point when the passenger door is opened and I’m pushed out of the car.
February 28th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Orange are just to tart and stingy on my tongue. Although their juice is really sweet peeling them is such a pain in the arse. Now apples on the other hand are so much better. You can peel them or cut them just like oranges but they taste so much better AND they taste great in juice form. People who prefer oranges over apples obviously have no clue about music err… fruit.
February 29th, 2008 at 11:16 am
Good comments…
I just want to add that In Rainbows is a fine good album although I agree Hail is superior, with it’s unique songs and variety as ass_master well put it.
February 29th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
I’d like to come in extremely late and point out that everyone here is not only wrong but also stand firm, skyscraping testaments to wrong everywhere. Pop-rock bands forming any later than the 60’s hold no sway in the world of talented musicians and mentioning the names of key members of these bands alongside Jimi Hendrix shows nothing but an existence of failure.
Another thing! hold an orange in one hand and an apple in the other- examine them both. Notice which fruit has more resemblance to a testicle. Juice the one least testicle-like and while doing so gorge yourself on the semeny goodness of a plump orange. Ingest it’s power…thrive (this doesn’t make you homosexual because you’re doing it to further your existence). But DO NOT eat bananas! (unless you have boobies) Bananas are the gayest fruit there is (even more so than fruit resembling testicles) and therefore are the least conducive to human growth. Much like a banana, Nirvana too is not conducive to the expansion of the human species (look at Kurt Cobain……he’s dead) and, by this association, is also gay…….at least as much as a banana (when eaten by a dude).
Real men don’t listen to Nirvana (that’s gay) and I’m a rampaging, close-minded bigot.
March 1st, 2008 at 3:47 am
I always liked Pearl Jam and Soundgarden more, and listen to them still while I only listen to Nirvana when it’s on the radio, though I did enjoy their music when I was younger. Maybe I’m just
Gladstone, curious as to which two PJ albums you think of as the “good ones”. I’m guessing “Ten” and “Vitalogy”. I am one of those strange people who likes “No Code” and “Yield” almost as much as the holy trinity of the first 3 albums…I got strange looks when I told people that at a Pearl Jam concert in 2003…
I was also very pleased to see mention of “Temple of the Dog” up the thread a ways. They were excellent. One of the reasons (though only a small one) I liked PJ and Soundgarden more than Nirvana was because of the mutual respect they seemed to have for each other and other musicians. Kurt famously slammed Pearl Jam in an article in either Spin or Rolling Stone for being corporate or whatever (though I heard he later retracted it)…it was a strange assertion because Nirvana jumped from Sub Pop to Geffen for “Nevermind”.
I liked the comparison that Pearl Jam is the Rolling Stones to Nirvana’s Beatles. It fits when you consider the longevity of the two bands and their overlap in fan bases; the difference is that after their initial wave of popularity in 1992-1995, Pearl Jam kind of receded into themselves and put out more introspective stuff like “No Code” and “Binaural”, etc. None of their albums since Vitalogy have approached the sales numbers or airplay as their first 3 releases.
The Rolling Stones on the other hand, put out a disco album in the 1970s. They tried to adapt as the music landscape changed to remain relevant, which made them lose any credibility they built up in the 1960s. At least now when they go on another farewell tour every 2 or 3 years, they pretty much play the hits.
End of overly long, scatterbrained transmission.
March 2nd, 2008 at 12:04 am
I am honestly mind-boggled that people feel it is possible to argue about the relative merits of various bands/albums/lyrics/etc. Boggled. In my mind.
Even though I myself agree with many of the sentiments expressed, hell even if the entire world agreed, the points become no more ‘true,’ or less subjective.
In the end, you can’t really attach weights to the variables from which music is derived and establish any sort of objective ‘best’ or ‘worst.’ I know, people have made careers of doing just that, but no amount of research or evaluation will ever convince me that one band is better than another band that I like more. From this attitude has sprung the music industry as we see it today–formulas for popularity and incessant pandering of soulless tunes to make a buck–and the ‘Music-Nazi’ attitude that encourages people to tell others that they shouldn’t like, or are stupid for liking, whatever it is that they listen to.
Can’t we just love the music in our own way and let others do the same?
…I should put the bong down now shouldn’t I?
P.S. OK Computer was pretty meh.
March 3rd, 2008 at 12:38 am
If someone asks me to name a great album in the more recent history of rock I usually tell them to listen to Ok Computer. The reallity is that most everyone I know says that. I really never got it. I just don’t listen to it and go “Woo” or even “Ahh”. I just kind of sit there with a confused look on my face for as long as I can until I see some shiny object or movement that draws my attention elsewhere. That usually doesn’t take very long. Of course, I don’t drink very much and I never smoke. So maybe I just can’t appreciate truly fantastic music unless I don’t have control of my faculties.
March 4th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Let this man be a lesson to us all. Stand up with me and speak the truth that’s in your hearts.
OK Computer wasn’t that great.
It’s alright, I know, I understand. We can relinquish our fear here first, on the internet where no one knows our names, and in time, others will see our example. Perhaps, someday, men and women in the streets will be able to look each other in the eyes again, and tell each other how they really feel about music–who they really like, and who they don’t–fearing no reprisal.
The first step toward freedom is here. The time has come. Walk with me.
March 5th, 2008 at 12:39 am
Llohr you have moved me. I like Boston. Everything. All of it. Well almost all of it. Most of it at least.
March 5th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Bloody Americans! Don’t have a clue when it comes to music!
March 5th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
Hallelujah!
March 7th, 2008 at 2:13 am
No sir I am not bleeding at the moment. Seeing as you island monkeys are supposed to be English experts it seems you don’t have a clue when it comes to grammar. Allow me to run-on to another sentence. As for me, I am going to get off the intra-web and go listen to some truly great British albums like the Spice Girls, S Club 7, and the almighty Son of Dork.
March 10th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I’d prefer reading in my native language, because my knowledge of your languange is no so well. But it was interesting! Look for some my links:
March 16th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
Before any more people comment on Kurt Cobains influence or ability, go read Heavier than Heaven. One of the greatest rock biographies ever. I have to agree with everything youve said about music Gladstone except for the things about Nirvana. Listen to all of the stuff not overplayed on the radio such as the more punkish stuff on Bleach. All Dave Grohl fans have to shut the fuck up. He is talented and I like the Foo Fighters but he cant hold a candle to Kurt Cobain. Can anyone honestly tell me they prefer My Hero to Lithium?!
March 17th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
…Jim Morrison is the greatest male vocalist of all time.
But I will agree with you about Kurt Cobain
March 19th, 2008 at 11:32 am
I honestly prefer My Hero over Lithium.
March 19th, 2008 at 11:35 am
I’d pick a couple of guys over Jim Morrison. But it’s all taste and preference. Freddie Mercury, Paul Rodgers, Robert Plant, Steve Marriott for that matter…
March 29th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
I don’t know enough about Jim Morrison to say he’s pretentious. But… what they hey, he’s pretentious.
As for Nirvana, I never really got them. But then I never really got Hendrix. I’ve always preferred British rock. Although the Strokes are seriously cool.
March 30th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
I pick Chris Cornell as the best…
May 4th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Territorial P*******s, motherfucker.
May 10th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
I’ve never read the entirety of a Cracked comment thread before. This has been educational.
Best song of the 90s has to be Interstate Love Song, if we’re talking about plain-old rock and roll. How many other songs from that time period stand along-side Stairway to Heaven as simple masterpieces of Classic Rock?
Otherwise, the tune that sums up the decade entirely is probably Love Me, Love Me, which more or less lines out the vacant mindset of most GenXers still complaining that Sonic Youth never got a fair shake.
Best Soundgarden song ever? Blow Up The Outside World.
Best grunge song of the 90s? Rooster.
Best Nirvana song of all time? The Man Who Sold The World, which was a cover.
Jim Morrison was the worst frontman of the Free Love era. Stupid lyrics and sex appeal do not a legend make.
May 13th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Honestly, I thought “Rusty Cage” was alright, but not even the best song on BadMotorFinger. It’s got good rhythm and a nice break to it, but as far as best Soundgarden jam I’d have to go with either “Superunknown” or “Burden in my Hand”. I know, I know, commercial . . . but despite that, the quality of Chris Cornell’s vocals in “Burden” (”I left her in the sa-a-a-and, just a bur-den in my ha-a-and!”) really knocked me flat the first time I heard it. Which, by the way, was only about five or six years ago, that I can remember.
At 23, I was young when this shit was going down. I still consider Nirvana my favorite band, but that’s mainly for sentimental purposes. I’m into different stuff today, but I really like popping “Bleach” or “In Utero” in my old CD-Boombox (because that’s how I remember it sounding, back when I was 10 or so) and playing some dead-serious air guitar (yeah, my girl loves that shit - I can tell by the sway of her hips as she leaves the room).
As far as the whole “Nirvana Rulez” movement goes, I would love to agree - I still think they’ve done some of the best stuff that came out of the ’90s, proof being that it still endures today as a serious topic of discussion. But c’mon - Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, and yes, Sonic Youth are all as good or technically better as far as lyrical genius and song structure go. AssMaster3k had a good point though, in that simple songs by Nirvana are as good as complex songs by these other bands, and that sings volumes to their actual level of talent. I mean, “Lithium” is still a tie for my favorite song of all time, and I try to consider myself a discerning listener. As much as I wish to, the Nirvana habit is hard to break.
May 13th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
Yeah, I don’t think people realize that when I say Kurt wrote some goo pop rock songs and compared him to Cheap Trick, I wasn’t shitting on him. That’s a genuine achievement.
But my boy Chris Cornell can do all that and a million other things too.
June 13th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
best CD’s of the 90’s (not in order)
Nevermind (Nirvana)
Superunknown ( Soundgarden)
Siamese Dream ( Smashing Pumpkins)
Ten ( Pearl Jam)
Dirt ( Alice in Chains)
The Bends ( Radiohead)
OK Computer ( Radiohead)
Odelay ( Beck)
In Utero (Nirvana)
I cant think of any right now. Dont be pissed if I forgot your favorite.
June 25th, 2008 at 12:18 am
Breed, In Bloom, Smells Like Teen Spirit, etc., these were not great songs. I admit that. They were good, but not transcendent. You have to dig a little deeper, past- if I may- Nevermind, to see why some can still be Nirvana fans first and foremost.
Those who say that Kurt was not a talented guitarist probably haven’t picked up a guitar. I learned to play Come As You Are on the day I got my first guitar. I learned Dive, All Apologies, Polly, About A Girl, Lithium within the first couple of weeks. This was the beauty of a lot of his songs. They were by no means difficult, but he dominated the first six frets of power chords in new ways that musicians 20 years his senior had not thought to.
He also covered other musicians and blew their versions out of the water. David Bowie’s Man Who Sold the World is nothing to Kurts. He makes The Vaselines’ Jesus Don’t Want Me For a Sunbeam seem cheap compared to his version…
~~~~
P.S.- To the guy who thought Rusty Cage was at the top for Soundgarden, it was a cover of a Johnny Cash song.
P.S.S.- Gladstone, if you check this again, I saw that you said you hadn’t heard an album like Ok Computer since its release. I suggest Jeff Buckley’s “Grace,” if you haven’t heard of it. If pure musical genius isn’t enough and you want some skill to go along with it, this guy is a must-hear. To this day I cannot play his songs like he could. Difficult, beautiful, and they make you wonder how he thought it up.
Like all great musicians, he died at the age of 27. In 1997.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Alright, I’ll put this now as mind boggling context for what I actually mean to say: I like Nirvana. I like Kurt Cobain.
Moving on.
Kurt Cobain was not a lyrical genius.
But hell, neither was Jimi Hendrix. While an astounding guiter player who clearly deserves his legendary status, you can’t place him up with John Lennon, who was an amazing musician, poet, novelist (yes, Lennon wrote 3 novels), and activist.
Also, not what I intended to talk about.
Jim Morrison, whose musical career I admit was launched based on his ability to ooze sex through his pores while coming off as being more intelligent and interesting in the midst of one of his several periods of not bathing, only taking off his leather pants for sex, and substance abuse than most people who attend Harvard.
That said, Jim Morrison never truly considered himself a musician. Actually, if anyone’s taken the time to do anything other than watch the wildly inaccurate Oliver Stone flick and listen to “Light my Fire”, they should know that Jim was an experimental poet and filmmaker, following in the visionary trails of greats like Arthur Rimbaud and Antonin Artaud. The man cited his one of his most profound influences to be Friedrich Nietzche and managed to amidst paternity suits, the Miami trial, a musical career, and one of the most famed drug habits in rock history, to write several books of poetry, a screenplay entitled “HWY”, and begin to lay the groundwork for a film career before he died in 1971. Jim was in talks for several movie roles when he died and it was assumed that Jim would be that face of 1970s film. I bet cinema would be a hell of a lot better off.
So no, we don’t get to compare Jim Morrison to a seahorse obsessed, Courtney Love fucking, snickering, sophmoric heroin addict from Aberdeen.
That is ignorant.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
also……….looking at some of the earlier comments on better male vocalists than Jim, take the lyrics as evidence:
Kurt Cobain: “Rape me, Rape me again” “Sit and drink pennyroyal tea, I’m aneimic royalty”
“With the lights out, it’s less dangerous! Here we are now, entertain us!”
*Smacks of those stoners that find everything that seeing their own hands reminds them off is profound
Freddy Mercury: “Mama mia mama mia mama mia, let me go. Beezlebub has a devil put aside for me, for me, for me-” “We are the Champions, my friends, we’ll keep on fighting, to the end”
*Smacks of trying too damned hard to be ridiculous/shatteringly unique.
Paul Rodgers: “She moves me when I get drunk, then she say I’m not nowhere.”
*Smacks of every college douchebag with a guitar and some bitch he wants to get into
Steve Marriott: why bother to list any, he belonged to a band that got better once Rod Stewart replaced him
Jimi Hendrix: “Excuse me while I kiss the sky” “You say your mom ain’t home, that ain’t my concern. Stay with me, and you won’t get burned. ” “You know you are a smooth little heartbreaker, ah, foxy.”
*While undoubtedly better than those above, they still contain a lot of poor grammer, and hold no revelations besides- gasp- drug use causes hallucinations, and sex is good.
Jim Morrison: “Blood! screams her brain as they chop off her fingers. Blood will be born in the birth of a nation. Blood is the rose of mysterious union” “The end of laughter, and soft lies. The end of days we tried to hide.” “who among you will run with the hunt?
now night arives with her purple legion. Retire now to your tents and to your dreams. Tomorrow we enter the town of my birth. I want to be ready”
*And this is only a fraction of the originality and genius in his non lyrical poetry. Besides, which of course, is his extensive philosophical notes on the Dionsysian, shamanistic, and dramatic aspects of musical performance
And wow……….someone would rank Jim below those others.
People are ignorant, na?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Oh, you gladstone you. I see what you did here.
Jesi, don’t read too much into it. Because, in honesty, it’s kinda awkward to read your comments. Especially when they read like something written at an IRC or similar means.
Relax.