Florida Threatens To Secede, America Goes Back To Sleep
Yes, Florida is actually trying to split into two, with one half (presumably the one with Disney World) remaining a part of our glorious nation and the other (Universal Studios) sinking into the sea where it belongs.
And readers, I implore you: if you live in Florida, SUPPORT THIS MEASURE. Then move to a less shitty state. I hear Wyoming’s got room.
Let’s face facts. Florida is the wang of the United States for a reason: it’s a magnet for disease, usually smells bad, and at times (Spring Break, Mardis Gras, any other Girls Gone Wild-related calender event) it’s filled with wriggling white creatures who are just passing through.
Well, I say enough. Florida, don’t let Cuba hit you on the ass on your way out.
And believe me, I don’t take hate lightly; until now the only things I’ve hated are the chips and salsa at Mexican restaurants in Europe, dogs who act like they want it and then are all “yip yip yip” when it’s time to get down to business, and Judd Apatow (Grr! I hate him so much! Grr!). So when I say “I hate Florida,” I say it as someone who’s never gone near the hellhole and never will.
“But Michael,” you ask in your effeminate voices, “why so angry?”
“Shut up,” I answer, and then I ride away on my Harley.
But okay, just to humor you.
First off, if the liberal media I subscribe to is to be believed, you fuckers and your goddamned butterfly ballots stuck us with an idiot President and an expensive, highly fatal war in the Middle East, rather than just a boring, inoffensive President who invented the Internet. By my calculations, that means you owe us 500 billion dollars (and counting), the execution of Jeb Bush, and a public apology.
Secondly, they want to teach their ugly, incestuous kids Intelligent Design. Intelligent Design is about as intelligent as the people in Florida, which is to say not very. Until religion can do any of the following things:
Then it has no right being taught as science or, for that matter, even being presented to our children. Yes, that’s right; I am firmly against children even being exposed to religion at school.
Middle School is a place to lose all faith in a higher loving power, and taking that experience away from our young people is just plain unfair. If I had to go through it, so should they.
Religion and school are like milk and gin; you can mix them if you want, but you’re just going to end up with a terrible taste in your mouth and a clogged kitchen sink. Alright, maybe that’s not exactly what it’s like, but I didn’t want to use a metaphor that would shoot over the heads of the mongoloid Floridian “readers.”
Bottom line: Get the hell out, God. And if you’ve got a problem with that little scenario, I’ll be waiting. You know where to find me (I presume).
Lastly, I was never that close to my Grandparents, and old people make me uneasy. What do they know that I don’t?
So do your duty, Americans (while you still are ones) and vote for Floridian secession.
It’s the right thing to do, and if you’re stupid enough to follow the advice of a Cracked blogger, you deserve no better.
When not blogging for Cracked, Michael makes enemies states at a time as head writer and co-founder of Those Aren’t Muskets!
May 9th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Seriously, fuck Florida.
May 9th, 2008 at 8:45 am
religion can’t get me laid, in fact it actively opposes me getting laid. fuck you god and thank fudge for alcohol, you don’t like alcohol either, well fuuuuuck you.
May 9th, 2008 at 8:47 am
Fuck it right in it’s fucking ass. Old people can find somewhere new to go and die. I hear Arizona is a nice place to sit and not have your family call you while you wait to shuffle off this mortal coil.
May 9th, 2008 at 8:53 am
“(Grr! I hate him so much! Grr!). ” That line was fucking funny. Particularly the Grr!s.
May 9th, 2008 at 8:58 am
I like Florida or the Panhandle part anyway.
May 9th, 2008 at 9:05 am
““Shut up,” I answer, and then I ride away on my Harley.
[religion can't] # make my Harley do wicked jumps.”
did someone buy a motorbike, or just wishes they did?
but yes, fuck florida.
May 9th, 2008 at 9:17 am
Religion certainly can’t fuel my massive addiction to hookers and cocaine. What’s up with that?
May 9th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Religion can’t:
Stop Babies Happening
Make Crucifixion non fatal at least in the short term
Open Jars
May 9th, 2008 at 9:43 am
You think religion can’t get you laid? You can get more ass then a Mormon preacher with 49 wifes at a youth camp. Oh and i am 18, so when i say “youth camp” its alright.. Hmm i guess you older people can’t go that route.
Religion can’t get you a time machine.
Dinosaurs.
Tickets to major sporting events.
Good Music.
It can give you.
Guilt associated with sex.
The idea that dinosaurs arn’t real.
Shitty music.
Tickets the a space ship, in the form of punch.
May 9th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Religion won’t fold my laundry, so I decided to take a scientific approach and found momentum and geometry very helpful. GO SCIENCE !
Also fuck Florida and the Bush family’s conservative right-wing cabal that has taken control of that state.
May 9th, 2008 at 9:52 am
However, religion apparently can facilitate time travel by transporting and entire generation of American school children back to the 19th century.
May 9th, 2008 at 9:53 am
Don’t get me started on all the batshit insanity for which FLorida is responsible. Bottom line, let them secede from the US, we’ll let Quebec secede from Casnadia; the two can form a nation of their own full of batshit insane Floridians, and linguo-fascist Quebecois!
May 9th, 2008 at 9:55 am
If only there were some way come genius could merge science and theology into one harmonious cul- er,religion. Yeah some kind of science theology… science-ology…. scientology…
May 9th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Religion once in a while produces good music. Becoming the Archtype is cool I guess. And Bach, Mozart and Bethovan were all Christian and they were effing awesome.
Religion can’t do away with useless rules.
Religion (satanism) invented Hannah Montana.
May 9th, 2008 at 10:32 am
“Florida is the wang of the United States” Right on! The limp wang.
May 9th, 2008 at 10:59 am
I am so happy that my repeated libel about you as an attempted dog rapist has seeped into the public’s conscious that you feel comfortable playing off of it without even an explanatory link. You make me proud. Good show!
May 9th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Religion can get you shot at, by other Christians.
It can’t actually give you spiritual peace and serenity when you argue about theology with people too stubborn/stupid to listen.
May 9th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Religion can fill you with hate… and the penis of your pastor.
Religion can’t:
Cure cancer
Keep you from being a douche bag
Help you light fires with your eyes
Explain why we share 98% of our genes with Chimps
Make you fly
Make you happy
But, it can make you rich if you use it to oppress people and steal their money….
May 9th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Religion can make you a succesful Cracked blogger, just by existing, so you can make fun of it.
May 9th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
‘Explain why we share 98% of our genes with Chimps’
We share 62% of our genes with cabbage too, what’s you point?
I’m just sayin’ is all…
May 9th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Wait, are we descended from cmips or cabbage now? I get so confused.
May 9th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Technically we’re also 98% genetically related to a salmon.
May 9th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Wow, so much hate being thrown about.
I’ll pray for all of you.
May 9th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
I would merge religion with technology if someone gave me a tropical island, blank check and many zealous followers. A fuckload of labcoat wearing scientists would be a nice addition too. I’d say that God loves progress and we should start cloning (thus removing babies) people right away. And you wouldn’t have to parent them - we’d have government run institutions. Also, progress CAN make harleys do wicked jumps.
May 9th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Actually, the idea of intelligent design doesn’t technically promote any specific religion (depending on who’s teaching the lecture, I suppose). All it says is that, as a rule, the idea of Darwin’s evolution (completely random mutation spawning new species) is false. The fossil record bears this out - creatures evolved in a relatively straight line, and the innumerable evolutionary “dead-ends” that should be present in a Darwinist reality are totally absent.
Intelligent Design simply postulates that it makes more sense if some sort of “higher-power” or “universal consciousness” (what religious folk refer to as God) helped direct the evolutionary process into the linear development we see today. In fact, proponents of Intelligent Design (at least, the less-religious ones) will readily agree that it’s quite possible that Humans descended from Chimps and the Great Apes, in fact, it is quite likely true.
The only difference is that Darwinists believe that this was accidental, just a random swerve in the evolutionary road. I believe that, since even the path from Homo Habilus to Neanderthal appears in the fossil record with no perpendicular deviation, the evolution from bacteria to Man was a purposeful, intentional act. Maybe God, maybe Fate, maybe the Great Pumpkin - but not the random chance of some universal roll of the dice.
Full disclosure: I am an Agnostic, raised Catholic, but self-excommunicated because I thought the classical Catholic doctrine (”We’ll read the Bible for you, because that stuff is too complicated for the lay person - oh, and we’ll do it in Latin, just to mess with you.” was pretty much bull. As an Agnostic, I believe there is probably a God, but just what form He/She/It/Them takes, or if there is any form of afterlife, is still open to debate in my mind.
May 9th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Also, I don’t really give half a damn what someone believes - Buddha, Allah, Yahweh, Jehovah, Darwin, and the aforementioned Great Pumpkin are all fine with me. I’ll discuss or debate any of them, but I have my own beliefs that I’ve examined in the most honest way I know how and have concluded that they make good sense to me. My purpose in the above post (rambling as it may be perceived) was just to clear the waters as to the tenets of Intelligent Design. Those who believe it are not religious wack-jobs (well, not all of us) or Young-Earth Creationists (which even a cursory examination of the fossil strata and carbon isotope ratios would prove laughable). Most of us are just well-meaning folks who found a flaw with Darwin’s hypothesis and decided to run with that premise, and thusly came to the conclusion that perhaps the Universe is a bit more mysterious than Science alone has the present ability to explain.
May 9th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
I’m a Floridian (from the Panhandle) and it kind of hurts my heart hole area to hear you guys tear into Florida like that.
I mean suuuuuure there are PLENTY of dirty, incestuous, Bush loving freaks and rednecks who live here. But hey, doesn’t EVERY state have a couple?
Oh, they don’t?
Hm.
Well hey, at least WE don’t have to claim Warren Jeffs.
May 9th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
” If only there were some way COME genius” and “Wait, are we descended from CMIPS or cabbage now?”
Someones been drinking at work again.
Though come genius is pretty cool.
May 9th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
“I mean suuuuuure there are PLENTY of dirty, incestuous, Bush loving freaks and rednecks who live here. But hey, doesn’t EVERY state have a couple?
Oh, they don’t?”
Oh yes they do Woombie or yes they do.
I live in Alabama but only about ten minutes from the Florida border. I have a house at the beach and spend about half of my time there, I’m in Florida right know as a matter of fact.
( Not quite as impressive as it sounds, My beach house is half of a duplex and consists of one bedroom a den/kitchen combo and a bathroom but is a short walk to the beach where I shark fish)
It kind of pissed me off read Swaim tear into Florida also, when several of his statements
could just as easily be about one of the most fucked up states in the union, California.
I’m pretty sure Mr. Swaim is joking if not then, Grr! Mr. Swaim Grr!
May 9th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
For all that “opiate of the masses shit, religion does not do near as good of a job getting me high as real opiates.
@ Corsair: fossils are extremely rare, thus the chance of any species that was not successful and numerous leaving fossils is extremely small.
May 9th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
I’m guessing David Wong was out of the office when this one was submitted.
May 9th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Religion can’t rid the world of Rachel Ray and her orange cookware.
May 9th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
It might be limp but it sure is big.
May 9th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
science can’t
Cure cancer
Get rid of Daniel O’ Brian
get you laid (Fact: unless you’re a rich scientist then all bets are off)
Make cars run on water
make a bad ass solo
May 9th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Religion can’t tie my shoelaces but it can kiss my ass.
May 9th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Religion can’t:
1) Hold down that poodle who is just asking for it
2) Stop those damned mutated hillfolk (don’t worry, bullets don’t stop ‘em either)
3) Get me drunk
4) Explain the draw of cricket
May 9th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Religion cant save your soul unless you open your minds and hearts, and stop mocking God.
May 9th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
JT, I believe it was religion that put my soul in jeopardy in the first place. Forgive me for saying so, but I’ll avoid ANY cult that damns me in order to force me to join.
May 9th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Religion doesn’t damn you my friend. You make your own choices in life. You have to pay for those choices in the end.
Religion is just the messenger.
May 9th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Jewel is the only thing that can save your soul.
May 9th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Jewel certainly seems to be the way.
After all…
….Who will save your soul when it comes to the flower
Who will save your soul after all the lies that you told, boy
Who will save your soul if you won’t save your own?
May 9th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
“Shut up,” I answer, and then I ride away on my Harley.
awesome
May 9th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
I have been stuck in Florida for eight years now, and I can say from experience that it sucks rocks. I originally moved to Tallahassee for a job that I loved, but once that was over I was stuck here. Now I’m down near Tampa and it is even worse. It never snows, there are too many old geezers and everybody has a New England accent. Fucking freaks.
May 9th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Being Australian I have no idea what to say on all this Florida business except “Haha, you crazy American-types!”
And don’t even get me started on Intelligent Design but it will suffice to say boo@u Religion!
Swaim has totally earned my respect, which is weird given the dog thing but whatever, I read DOB so who’s really the sick one here.
May 9th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
First of all, nice job ripping off the Simpsons on the whole “america’s wang” joke (seiously, the exact same wording? come on). Second, when you all get done jerking each other off over your shared hatred of religion go read David Wong’s “Godfuse” article. Lastly, if I lived somewhere else other than the paradise that is Florida I guess I would be probably be angry too. Now, if anyone needs me, I’ll be at the beach… ten months out of the year.
May 9th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Hope you enjoy the site of wrinkly jewish asses while you’re there, tkesten.
Florida sucks and everyone calls it America’s wang at this point because it is. Florida is a terrible brain dead excuse for a state full of anti-castro cubans, dying jewish new yorkers, and gator wrasslers.
Religion can’t make Florida just go away.
Religion can’t replace my kidney or give me a blood transfusion.
Religion can’t bring me to cracked.com
Religion can’t really do anything except pervert the laws of this country according to their selfish will.
May 10th, 2008 at 7:43 am
I live in South Florida (just north of Miami), and the ridiculous backwards-ass creationist neocons to the north of us ARE THE VERY REASON we want to split (into two states, by the way, nobody wants to secede.) Everyone associates us with those douchebags and we’re fucking sick of it.
I don’t care how reasonable anyone says Intelligent design is… I think this says it all.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expelled:_No_Intelligence_Allowed
And one more thing, why does SoFla have to keep Palm beach county? Fuck Palm Beach County in their rich asses! Oh, that’s right. Rich. Property tax. Let’s keep them.
May 10th, 2008 at 11:55 am
I was trying to make a joke and now I may have portrayed myself as someone who listens to Jewel.
May 10th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
CORSA1R: “…the innumerable evolutionary “dead-ends” that should be present in a Darwinist reality are totally absent.”
What do want? Fossils of animals that didn’t exist because the species died out?
May 10th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
No, what I would like is some concrete evidence that the trends of evolution are generated based on random mutation. The linear development we see in the fossil record does not bear this out. Looking at flowcharts of evolution, progress seems to march forward with purpose, rather than the undirected wandering nature predicted by Darwin.
May 10th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Of COURSE it seems to have purpose; it DOES have purpose. It’s goddamned survival of the fittest. Natural selection is not a theory or a matter of belief; it describes a mathematical fact. It’s like saying “the thing that weighs the most is heavier.” All it says is that the better something is at making more of itself, the more of it there will be. Add a finite amount of natural resources, and you’ve got evolution. You’re not going to find evidence of absolute chaos, because there is no such thing, and that is FAR from evidence for the existence of God, merely logic.
Linear development is EXACTLY what natural selection predicts, because it fucking kills anything that strays from the straight and narrow path of effectiveness. Until we make it moot by giving mouth-breathing morons food and shelter for their whole lives Fight Club style. That reminds me: Ed Norton as the Hulk? WTF?
May 10th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
“Ed Norton as the Hulk? WTF?”
Ditto. (Since you brought it up)
May 10th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
@CORSA1R: Someone needs to read The God Delusion.
@Swaim: Let’s make babies.
May 11th, 2008 at 12:21 am
My problem with teaching Intelligent Design in science classes is that it is not a strict result of scientific process. Let me be clear: I am not speaking to the truth or falsehood of Intelligent Design; I am merely saying that it should not be taught in science class.
I do believe, very deeply in fact, that we need to teach about religion in schools. Not teach people to follow religions, but to teach about the religions. We are sending our children out into the world without a basic understanding of religions which are a huge driving force in the history of the world, not to mention current events and the motives of humans in the present.
May 11th, 2008 at 1:21 am
Frankly, I don’t think many schools would have the balls to try and teach kids “about” religions. Any statement made in the classroom has the potential to offend SOMEONE. Putting teachers in charge of something like that is just inviting lawsuits from sensitive parents when their kids come home too well informed about confusing, opposing views. Which is sad, because you’re absolutely right.
May 11th, 2008 at 3:12 am
What’s this about the gratest actor of all time and the Hulk?
May 11th, 2008 at 4:47 am
Given all the incidents of ZERO Tolerance that I keep reading about, Fragg, I have only 1 thing to say to you. Either you’re living in a dream world OR you’re waaaaay ahead of your times. If our children turn out well-educated and able to decide for themselves about religion (their own or any other), what will the zealots of this world do?? Who will they convince to kill people and blow up trains and buildings… God forbid!
BTW, why don’t you guys write on zero tolerance. Seems to me there is a WORLD of material that a comedy site could use from such a lame-ass concept.
May 11th, 2008 at 5:01 am
We learned about religions in high school. It was just part of world history. When you talked about Japan, you talked about shintoism and so on. It was very basic knowledge of religions, but it was something. I think they probably should have taught us more - like the difference between sunni and shi’ite which every American should know. although, frankly they could have taught us that i just don’t remember. it wasn’t early as important at the time.
May 11th, 2008 at 5:13 am
I agree completely, fragg. Children should be given enough information on Religion to be able to make their own informed decision on the subject. Unfortunately, as others have already pointed out this is very unlikely to happen anywhere in the near future, as upsetting as it is.
May 11th, 2008 at 6:50 am
Children aren’t given enough information to make an informed decision on anything. That’s horse-shit. You’re retarded. That’s why they don’t have the right to vote, or drink booze or bang prostitutes. You have a penis shaped like an umberella handle.
Our ancestors learnt that eating certain foods could kill people, do you think they should have passed that learned knowledge on or should they have let their children figure it out for themselves and hope they could make an ‘informed decision’?
Huh? HUH?!!?!?!
You know what children are? Dumb as fuck. They’re going to make the retarded decision every time. You know the difference between a religious person and a child? Not much. They have a built in distrust of any form of intelligence. A bit like the United States. Hey you know what the United States are. Dumb as fuck, retarded and highly religious. ARE YOU SEEING THE CONNECTIONS YET?!?!?!!?
May 11th, 2008 at 7:01 am
“Our ancestors learnt that eating certain foods could kill people, do you think they should have passed that learned knowledge on or should they have let their children figure it out for themselves and hope they could make an ‘informed decision’?”
Well it’s to damn bad your parents didn’t let you figure it out on your own. If they had I probably wouldn’t had to have read the above stupid bullshit.
May 11th, 2008 at 8:44 am
I have no illusions that U.S. public school students could have the religious education that we have been discussing here. It is just an awful shame that we are sending our students and our future leaders out into the world with such a gaping hole in their understanding of the world.
On the positive side, it is unlikely that the U.S. public school system will ever slide the other way down the scale–that is, towards religious classes in school that force religious practices and ideology on an individual. We save that for private schools.
On another positive note, I wrote “gaping hole” above and am chortling over it.
May 11th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Calm down, glendoor42. What did you expect from a guy who calls himself “Some Asshole?”
May 11th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Well “Some Asshole”, I don’t have a penis shaped like anything: I’m a woman. Now, don’t you feel like a dipshit.
There’s Biology 101 out of the way so let’s move on to Informed Decision 101.
Letting someone figure something out by themselves is not an informed decision because they have not been INFORMED of anything (English is tricky, I know, but you’ll get there eventually). If I knew something was poisonous I would tell other people, including my children, and it would then be their INFORMED decision on whether or not they ate those foods.
May 12th, 2008 at 12:55 am
“Some Asshole,” huh? I guess the kid blew his entire intellectual load coming up with an accurate name and just didn’t have the brain cells left over to write anything else that made sense. Don’t you just love when someone demonstrably dumber than you tries to insult your intelligence? I don’t know about the rest of you, but it makes me feel good.
And as for the rest of you: I hate to break your balls, but there are “religious” folks out there who were born smarter people than most of you will die as, so cut the elitist bullshit and get back to the dick jokes; it’s what you’re good at.
May 12th, 2008 at 1:55 am
If I knew something was poisonous I would tell other people, including my children, and it would then be their INFORMED decision on whether or not they ate those foods.
Oh and religion isn’t poisionous? I smell hypocrisy! Pigs-ass!
May 12th, 2008 at 2:09 am
You know what some assholes and some fucking idiots have in common? They both smell like hypocrisy, pig asses and like this statement don’t make a lot of sense.
May 12th, 2008 at 7:49 am
Some of history’s greatest intellectuals have been of the religious persuasion. Some of our current greatest intellectuals are theologians. Some religions and religious sects place/have placed great emphasis on good education and quality logic and debate.
That being said, I do not believe that it is the sharp-minded theologians who are advocating the teaching of Intelligent Design in schools. Thomas Aquinas is not going to crawl out of his grave and start shaking his fist because we do not teach a non-scientific concept (Intelligent Design) as science.
May 12th, 2008 at 9:02 am
This is the REAL Nick. Seriously, the real Nick. I’ve been simply sitting in the shadows like I said I would, and I restrained my tongue on the several Guitar Hero posts simply because someone has quoted my previous posts with each GH post since then.
HOWEVER, I couldn’t just sit back and let this one go. Maybe a few of you remember my posts about religion back on the Kirk Camron/Ray Comfort banana/dick-sucking/atheist’s nightmare blog, and I have to comment:
1.) Intelligent Design is Creationism repackaged. I’m sure you all can understand the put shit in a different box and it’s still a piece of shit concept. Just to show how laughable a concept this is, Creationsists believe the following: The universe is only 6,000 years old, that humans lived at the same time as the dinosaurs, and any evidence that proves otherwise is the work of the devil. Liberty University has dinosaur bones on display and say they are only 3000 years old… This is the type of ignorant shit you get when the university is founded by Jerry Falwell.
2.) To expand on Swaim’s point… Religion should be learned about in school. i.e. People should learn about Islam so they can understand the current world situation and why 99.9% of muslims are batshit insane. A lot of literature couldn’t be understood, for example, Shakespeare, who uses religious allusions quite often. But, “intelligent design,” or ID, should not be taught next to evolution as a possible truth. If you think there is any amount of evidence to support ID, you are what rationalists call an ID-iot.
3.) I noticed that there were a few people that didn’t understand that whole “theory” of evolution, but lets get one thing straight. A “theory” in layman’s terms is more like a hypothesis to scientists. But, a theory to scientists is fact. Don’t believe me? Go test out the “theory of gravity” by jumping off a tall building without a parachute. Come back and tell me how it goes….
4.) If you DON’T believe in evolution, don’t worry. About 60% of the USA doesn’t believe it either, BUT that doesn’t make you any less of an idiot. You should go read a book. There’s so much evidence to support evolution that you have to be intentionally ignorant to believe in creationism.
Here’s a few examples that prove evolution and specifically the common ancestory of humans and modern day apes:
a.) Human Chromosome #2 has an end chromosome DNA sequence in the middle of it… Yes, this is true. Ever wonder why our DNA is so close to a chimpanzee’s? We have a common ancestor. Our Chromosome #2 is a fusion of two Chimpanzee chromosomes which explains why we have one less chromosome pair than modern day apes. Isn’t it awesome how science figures all this stuff out?
b.) ERVs. These little things are sequences in our DNA left over and passed down when virus attacks an egg or sperm that then becomes part of a zygote (i.e. a child). The chances of a DNA sequence like an ERV to be implanted by chance at the exact same position in DNA like you find in humans and chimpanzees is about 1 in several billion…. we have more than 19 confirmed ERVs in common with chimpanzees, so take 1 and divide it by one billion to the 19th power, and that’s about the chance this happened at random.
5.) @ The Elusive Robert Denby:
a.) “Religious folks out there who were born smarter people than most of you will die as…”
Name them.
Who do you have? Hovind? (currently in jail for 10 years for tax fraud.) Ted Haggard? The hypocrite who preaches “fags are evil” and then got caught and admitted to trying to buy meth from a male prostitute and got a massage from that same male prostitute? Kirk Camron and Ray Comfort? We’ve seen how bright they are… Jerry Falwell, who I mentioned before believes humans lived at the same time as the dinosaurs? George Bush Sr., who said atheists should not be citizens of the USA. George Bush Jr., who sent troops into Iraq because “God told him to.”
“…cut the elitist bullshit…”
When did “elite” become a bad thing to be you ignorant fucktard?
Here’s a list of atheists and what they’ve done for the world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU
People like Crick, Dawkins, Dennet, Hawking, Gould, Darwin, Einstein, Sagan, Edison, Jefferson… not to mention 93% of the NAS.
I leave you with this quote from Carl Sagan:
“It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in dilusion, however satisfying or reassuring.”
May 12th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Are you kidding me??? Or should I say - Nick are you kidding yourself?? Who the hell is going to read thru that crap… What a waste of time!
May 12th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
I grew up in mini-Ulster, not the real Ulster mind you, just the part of Scotland that assumes it’s actually in Ulster.
To be fair it’s made me jaded with a lot of things.
May 12th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
It’s been months since my last post, and people STILL make references what I said back then. You don’t have to like it, IndiePals, but how do you know it’s a waste of time if you didn’t even bother to read it?
Maybe there’s some intersting science stuff in there and you could learn something, or maybe you’re just a religious fundie who is scared shitless of the idea of evolution and that there is no God. You might not like it, but we still do have freedom of speach in this country, so how about you quit being such a twat and just skip over it if you don’t like it?
May 12th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
I read all of Nick’s post. It’s not really hard to read a few paragraphs, especially if you read above the 4th grade level that’s average for US citizens.
I also love the word fucktard.
May 12th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Even as a non-religious person, it depresses me when characters like Swain and Nick throw little tantrums, not against a specific aspect of faith, but of the concept itself. It reminded me of a quote by the much-smarter Mr. Lileks:
“There’s a great deadness in many people, a grim harsh joy in the conviction we are just ‘moist robots,’ to use the cynic’s phrase, living our lives in a vast factory that arose by random happenstance. Nothing amuses them more than belief, and oddly enough, nothing angers them more. It’s not even what you believe. It’s the very fact of believing in something other than Flying Spaghetti Monster photoshop contest deadlines or the enhancements on Episode IV.”
May 12th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Well, that fact that Nick is a douche still holds true, but I’m really surprised at Swaim. I happen to be a religous person, and I won’t try to push my faith on anyone, but reading this article where its a flame war back and forth about whether or not “creationism” is right or wrong is sad. Cracked is a happy place to escape the perils of the shitty world we live in, and now they are bringing the things we are trying to escape from into our haven. I don’t see why this has to be a religous debate. It’s just rather uncomfortable for me to see someone so adamantly against God. But then again I guess I’m an ignorant trog for believing in a higher power and not that i evolved from a fucking monkey. Just ask Nick, I’m sure he’ll tell you…
Wait, I just realized the issue here. They think Nick is God. He sure as hell seems to think so.
May 12th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
[...] mind thoughts of planning your weekend, flipping through en route to According to Jim, maybe even watching a hurricane tear your crappy state a new asshole. But there is a dark side to The Weather Channel. A world of sexual harassment, verbal abuse, and [...]
May 12th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Way to go Swaim, you made Merlot Williams uncomfortable. I suggest you adjust your posts accordingly, before discomfort becomes outright objection.
May 12th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Nick, you seem to me as a very intelligent young man and I agree with most of your viewpoints on religion. However I will have to take issue with point number five in your above post.
Though you did not specifically say it, there was definitely a strong undercurrent that you believed that that are no people who are both religious and intelligent in this world.
If you truly believe that nowhere in this entire world that there are people who are both religious and intelligent then you are as closed minded and ignorant as the examples of religious people that you provided.
You asked for examples of people who who are both religious and intelligent and I could provide reams of examples but I am not, because if you cannot see that out of six billion people on this planet they might be some who are both, just from a purely scientifically logical stand point, it would be wasting both your time and mine.
You strike me as someone who’s far to intelligent to be that ignorant.
By the way Jefferson and Edison were by their own admission not atheist but deist and Einstein, Darwin and Sagan were all self admitted agonostics. Please don’t tell me you have more sense than the above geniuses.
May 12th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
Misspelled agnostics, Godammit!
May 12th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
I’m in the same boat as Glendoor42 here. I am an Atheist, however, I would be more than happy to provide a long list of intelligent religious men/women or a list the same length of unintelligent non-believers.
My point is that someones religious standing does not effect their ability to be intelligent or otherwise.
As for the idea that Swaim has done something wrong for having a go at the teaching of ID in schools, so what? If you didn’t want someone’s opinions (albeit presented humorously) you’re clearly looking at the wrong website. It’s like Dawkin’s said, people seem to think that Religion shouldn’t be discussed just because it’s Religion and I, for one, think that’s bullshit. Believe or don’t believe but I don’t see why we shouldn’t talk about it.
May 13th, 2008 at 2:57 am
Nick, no-one cares what you think.
I know I might be coming a bit late to this debate but I might just point this issue has nothing to do with whose religious beliefs have merit and whose don’t. Anyone who wants have that argument probably needs to be a little more open-minded.
Religion belief-sytems can’t be proved or disproved. That’s sort of why people enjoy arguing about them so much. And therefore IMHO schools should stick to teaching established facts as oposed to offering a bunch of theologies for people to choose from; Or teaching from a particular theological perspective. Leave that speculative crap for people to pursue as individuals outside of the education system.
BOOBIES!
May 13th, 2008 at 4:30 am
Mr. Ass Master, I am not uncomfortable with the post, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. It is simply unsettling to me based on my belief system. I happen to think Swaim is very talented, and he has made me laugh and think many a time. I have nothing against him personally, but I shall pray for him, and so that he sees that not all Christians “hate fags” or say “you are going to hell because Jesus is not in your heart” kinda thing. I happen to think that those people are ignorant assholes. Anyone who thinks their opinion is the only way is kind of an asshole. I feel the same way when people bash gays, blacks, jews, muslims or anything. The bottom line is, a few bad apples can ruin the bunch for anyone. I’m just waiting for Nick’s flame post against me. Elitists tend to do that.
May 13th, 2008 at 7:49 am
I kind of think that you missed the point of Nick’s post, it wasn’t to flame you, it was to provide evidence to his beliefs that ID is pretty much creationism (which I admit, I though was until his post).
He then goes on to add to “the affermative team’s” side (much like a debate) by providing acctual *facts,* something I seem to have failed to see the god-supporters do in these comments.
But Nick, I think that you saying that 99.9 percent of muslims are batshit insane is a little ignorant no? (Although batshit is one fucking awesome word). Oh, and theories are not treated as fact in science, they are treated as… well… theories, the most logical takes “the upper hand” if you will until it can be disproved and replaced with a a better fitting model for “what’s happening.” NB. Theories are never proven in science, they can only be disproven.
Other than that, I really enjoyed you post, very well presented.
Oh, and to end on a quote, from Freud this one (even though he was quite the weirdo) “God is a social reflex.” It seems whenever I hear that quote I think of lemmings jumping off a cliff, one after another. That’s a social reflex isn’t it?
May 13th, 2008 at 9:38 am
Okay, here we go….
@TIM EEEEE
“Even as a non-religious person, it depresses me when characters like Swain and Nick throw little tantrums, not against a specific aspect of faith, but of the concept itself.”
It’s because there is not a single aspect to prove an argument for theism and people still try to get creationism/ID put beside evolution in the classroom. 150 years has done nothing but strengthen theory of evolution, and it is the basis for most of the modern advances nearly every field of biology.
It is also that theists try to force their own version of morality on the world as well. Blue laws are a perfect example. There are 17 states that I couldn’t hold public office in because I’m an atheist. I am also pro-life, BUT what a woman does with her own body is her own choice, not the choice of any theist. While I may not agree that a pregnancy should be terminated, it’s not my place to say they can’t, and it’s not anyone else’s place either.
You wouldn’t very well accept a law that forced every woman to cover herself from head to foot, so why do you think these other things should be allowed? My point is this: I could care less what you believe in so long as you keep it to yourself. But, that’s not what happens.
@glendoor42:
I was a bit hasty in my wording, and I have no doubt there are some intelligent theists. For example, I mentioned the NAS, who 7% of are theists. It was merely a response to the ““Religious folks out there who were born smarter people than most of you will die as…” which is a much stronger statement considering the plethora of people that are straight up insane. Check out the “creationists’ museum” which has humans keeping raptors… yes, the meat eating predators… as PETS.
For every intelligent theist, there are many, many more atheists/agnostics and even more insane/retarded/ridiculous theists. Just look up “Project Steve” in google if you want a good laugh or “Jesus Camp if you want to be scared shitless.
“By the way Jefferson and Edison were by their own admission not atheist but deist and Einstein, Darwin and Sagan were all self admitted agnostics.”
It’s not completely sure exactly what Jefferson and Edison where, but that’s also because claiming yourself to be an atheist would get you shunned back then. There are many quotes by Jefferson which would lead one to believe he was atheist. No matter though because they were above all else secularist.
Einstein, Darwin, and Sagan were atheist AND agnostics. The terms aren’t exclusive. Personally, I’m like Dawkins. I’m atheist and agnostic, but until they can give me proof that God exists, I’m going to treat God the same way as I do unicorns and fairies.
@Merlot Williams:
“Well, that fact that Nick is a douche still holds true, but I’m really surprised at Swaim.”
I’m actually a pretty nice guy; I just act like a douche because it gains attention. It’s actually funny because I’ve been posting under another name, just like I said I would, and my comments are received very well. In fact, there have been many funny and creative conversations with the same people that are debating me right now, but subjects like this tend to offend someone on either side, so I decided to save my other name for more lighthearted discussions.
Why are you surprised at Swaim? He’s a smart guy and scientific research shows that the smarter you are and the higher education you have, the more likely you are to be atheist and/or agnostic.
“It’s just rather uncomfortable for me to see someone so adamantly against God. But then again I guess I’m an ignorant trog for believing in a higher power and not that i evolved from a fucking monkey.”
I’m glad someone challenging your beliefs makes you uncomfortable. I have a guess though… please correct me if I’m wrong, but you were brought up in a religious household, correct? Told from a very early age, God made everything and is all powerful. Told if you’re not good, you’re going to Hell? You sound a bit like I was a few years ago before I really started to search for myself and found there really is no reason to believe in God other than the sense of security that comes from believing that you go to heaven when you die.
And, yes, I do think you’re ignorant for not believing in evolution, but I also don’t think that makes you stupid. Usually this just means that you having taken the time to educate yourself on the subject. It’s a hard pill to swallow IF you take it at face value, but if you really understand evolution then is makes a LOT of sense.
“They think Nick is God. He sure as hell seems to think so.”
I’m not God. There is no God. I’m just an opinionated guy with hopes of sparking some people into thinking for themselves and taking joy in the short time they have to live on this Earth without throwing it away worrying about making some invisible man mad. Assuming there is a God that sends me to hell for eternity despite being a “good” guy, then fine. I’d rather be in hell than bow to him in heaven.
“Elitists tend to do that.”
Since when is being “elite” a bad thing? Being elite is a good thing, or is there some kind of connotation I don’t understand. Like Jon Stewart said when people were calling Obama an elitist: “If you’re not better than everyone else, what the hell are you doing running for President?”
@Andy Pants:
“I might just point this issue has nothing to do with whose religious beliefs have merit and whose don’t.”
Actually that’s the EXACT point. ID/Creationism has absolutely nothing to back it up. “God did it” or “The Bible says so” is not a valid argument to have something taught in a science class.
@Cannon:
“I think that you saying that 99.9 percent of Muslims are batshit insane is a little ignorant no?”
This was a bit of intentional exaggeration; a similar situation to Glendoor’s post. I know very well that it’s not that high of a percentage, but in terms of extremes I think we can agree that Muslims rank #1 or #2 on the list.
“Theories are never proven in science, they can only be disproven.”
Yes and no here. Some theories are 100% proven fact, but, they can change. For example, the heliocentric theory states we revolve around the sun; however, if we were struck by a comet or something and sent hurtling into space we wouldn’t really be heliocentric anymore (Not that it would matter. It’s be a dead planet from something that large hitting it.). If anyone still believes in a geocentric universe then they were frozen in time hundreds of years ago.
Evolution is proven 100%. That’s not to say it’s not modified or elaborated on, but there’s so much evidence in the fossil record, that can be seen by observation, ERVs (and other genetic markers), etc that time and again evolution holds it’s ground.
Thanks you. I’m glad you enjoyed my post.
@MJ-89:
“…people seem to think that Religion shouldn’t be discussed just because it’s Religion and I, for one, think that’s bullshit.”
This is definitely true. Religion should be discussed, but that doesn’t mean that in today’s world it shouldn’t be regarded with contempt. It is an essential part of understanding history, literature, a lot of classical music, and current geopolitical problems, BUT that doesn’t mean it’s true. Take a look at every other God in history: Zeus for example. Do you think there is anyone that believes in Zeus anymore because of lightning? No, because we found the answer to what causes lightning (i.e. static electricity caused by raindrops rubbing against each other in a cloud.) How about Apollo? His chariot broke the instant it was proven our solar system is heliocentric and not geocentric.
We call this “god of the gaps.” The “gaps” are getting smaller and smaller. In fact, they’re mostly limited to things that really can’t be tested: 1.) Before the Big Bang, 2.) the “afterlife” (if there is one), and 3.) The origin of life (This is abiogenesis though, not evolution. It’s a different area of study altogether). Number 3 may soon be gone too. There are laboratories trying to create primitive life by mimicking ancient earth atmospheric and oceanic conditions and they have completed what would be the initial steps to the forming of RNA.
In any case, I think it’s safe to assume that given the track record of previous gods and the ever growing knowledge of the human race, that the Judeo-Christian God is also just another “God of the Gaps.”
May 13th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
………my head just exploded, thanks Nick.
May 13th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
well someone sounds bitter. Is it because when you were a kid you went to the pool with your shirt on? The thought of Florida’s sun giving you a farmers tanned just tanned your hide? I’m wondering how dumb everyone is in Florida when at least they know that fucking Mardi Gras is in New Orleans which to my account is in fucking Louisiana. You side like a child complaining about food he has never tried. “Yes an avocado is green son, but trust me they taste delicious” you “no! i don’t want green, green is gross” dad responds “well son I guess you are just a giant pussy.”
enjoy your life with man boobs and swimming in a pool with a t-shirt on
May 13th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
‘I’m wondering how dumb everyone is in Florida when at least they know that fucking Mardi Gras is in New Orleans which to my account is in fucking Louisiana.’
Kolby, I’m not an American and even I know Mardis Gras festivals are also held in Miami and Mobile (which technically wasn’t always Alabama and was the old capital of French Lousiana).
May 13th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Yes, Mobile has the oldest Mardi Gras in the nation.
May 13th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Second largest too.
May 13th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
That’s probably the only thing about Alabama I’ve learned that didn’t come from To Kill A Mockingbird.
May 13th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Well here’s one that I just learned and I’ve lived here a majority of my life.
Alabama is the only state in the union to have every type of poisonous snake indigenous to North America.
The Moccasin or Cottonmouth, Coral snake, Copperhead and the Rattlesnake.
May 14th, 2008 at 1:24 am
Wow…I guess I misjudged you Nick and I apologize. I am man enough to admit when I am wrong. I was not brought up in a religious household, no, but I was raised on Judeo-Christian values. Going to church and the like have all been things that I have done for myself as a recent development. I find comfort and the such in my religious belief system, yes, and I do not think evolution as a whole is bullshit. I think that humans came from monkeys is bullshit. Each side, whether Athiest/Agnostic or Judeo-Christian, both have either unearthed or scientific fact to back their claim. I respect people with a difference of opinion, what pisses me off about it is when people think that their opinion is the only opinion. There were religions such as Shintoism and Buddism that have been around for thousands of years, whereas Christianity, in it’s current form is only a couple of millenia old. It is also surprising to me that so many Christians know so little about their faith. I bet you (Nick) could tell a Christian more facts out of the Bible than your average “holier than thou” churchgoing asshole. As far as the whole “elitist” thing goes, being elite is a good thing yes, but not when people act like they are better than others because of it. I did not have all the facts, and made unfounded comments, for which I apologized. I just don’t like (though I am not totally innocent of) when people act like they are better than others for one reason or another.
Bottom line is, you are a pretty cool guy, and I misjudged you. Just don’t hate all Chrisitans who speak for God, when they can’t fathom any of his teachings, or even get their own facts straight.
May 14th, 2008 at 9:51 am
I live here in Florida, and, I must say, as a proud citizen of this great state, I want global warming to occur simply to drown the entire state in a watery vortex of pain and agony. I wish I’d stayed in California, because everything in this article was spot on.
May 14th, 2008 at 9:52 am
just wanted to jump in at what is seeming to be a long debate again…
This more refers to the posts at the beginning made by I believe CORSA1R, where evolution is referred to as “random jumps”… I’m not trying to be patronising - but I’m assuming from the use of “random” that you haven’t actually read darwin before, especiallyalso using “jumps”, evolution hardly ever encounters full blown “random jumps” it just doesn’t work like that.
May 14th, 2008 at 10:02 am
Consider three factors: (a) the elderly, (b) hurricanes, and (c) Disney world.
(A): The elderly are a huge drain on our tax base, sucking up money through social security and medicare. Florida is full of the elderly.
(B): Every year we have to spend billions of dollars repairing the damage done by hurricanes in Florida, only to have to rebuild these same homes a few years later.
(C) Disney suckers in millions of visitors who leave their cash behind in the sunshine state.
For these three reasons, I say let Florida go. The tens of billions of dollars saved will allow the US to give every child a free college education. Florida is just sucking wealth from the rest of the nation.
May 14th, 2008 at 10:02 am
Part of being an intelligent and critically-minded person is recognizing the limits of what you know and what can be known. Claiming that god doesn’t exist is just as logically problematic as saying he does exist.
If you want to reserve judgement until there is proof, that is one thing. Just don’t go telling people that God doesn’t exist as if there is some sort of scientific proof supporting the statement. Some very intelligent scientists do that, and it is ignorant. All human knowledge is based on assumptions (e.g., the laws of the universe are stable, and won’t suddenly change tomorrow) that are unverifiable (i.e., we can’t see the future, so we don’t know how stable reality actually is). Get off your high horse, and please stop claiming rationality as your weapon if you are going to ignore some of its basic logical foundations.
Obviously, I am not saying we should let religious zealots push their agendas in schools. Let’s just keep the focus of the debate on where it belongs.
Intelligent design is not an acceptable scientific description of reality. “God did it” could be used to explain anything, but it is a deadend. It is not refutable for one thing, and for another, it does little to stimulate ideas for hypotheses to test (good theories generate interesting research questions).
If you want, science is the process of humans discovering WHAT “God did” and HOW he did it. Atheists can leave the god part out as it has absolutely no impact on the scientific method, nor should it. In other words, scientists can do their job without assuming the existence of God, which is probably why they tend to see no point in that assumption. At the same time, a believer could be a scientist without abandonning his faith. Assuming of course that scientist doesn’t adhere to one of the crazy fundamentalist dogmas ( a religious, rather that theist, issue).
May 14th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Well actually science usually being based on falsifiability means that it would be unlikely someone truely following logical scientific systems could actually accept the idea of god, and would dismiss it as easily as the famous (and stupid) analogs of the giant invisible teapot orbiting the sun and/or the spaghetti monster, with the simple reasoning that since it (currently) cannot be proven either way the idea should be dismissed out of hand, unless of course it is that topic which is the focus of investigation.
May 14th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Sam - CORSA1R’s description of “random jumps” is not described in Darwin’s theory, but keep in mind that it is a 150 year old theory. CORSA1R’s mention of this is actually sound science. Darwin’s theory is not a good model of evolution according to many scientists today. It only describes a gradual change in species over time, while many scientists believe this is only a small part of evolution. It has been debated that sudden changes did happen at certain time points; i.e. the development of new species which would involve a drastic change in chromosomal number and arrangement (Scientists are still baffled by the process of speciation as it has never been observed). You have to keep in mind that Darwin’s theory, while brilliant, was published in 1859 - almost a century before there was any insight into molecular biology and genetics. Brush up on some more modern theories.
May 14th, 2008 at 10:23 am
As a Florida boy, born and raised, I’d like to weigh in on the side that South Florida will not secede and here’s why: they have no follow through. Miami has attempted to become the state capital a few times in the History of the state and has never succeeded. Now, think about how many people live in the Miami area.
That’s right.
No follow through. South Florida is a group of terribly wealthy or horribly destitute people who are either used to doing nothing and getting their way because someone else is doing the work for them. Or, in the case of the other half, doing the work for some wealthy person and not having enough time to sign a petition.
Or their just illegal immigrants.
So, sit back, and have a mojito because this is not going to happen. All the douchebags in North Florida, where I was raised, are just going to watch the douchebags in South Florida, where I currently live and have lived for several years, flounder around and eventually give up on this false crusade.
Why doesn’t central Florida (Orlando) secede and become their own city-state. They’ve got the money and the people, all they need are the guns and the inclination. They’ve already got a castle.
Just throwing it out there.
May 14th, 2008 at 10:24 am
@bm:
nb - I did use “hardly ever” when qualifying encounters…
I was using the example of darwinism in general simply to highlight the idea that evolution is not entirely just random changes as suggested, in fact random is definitely not the right word, although sometimes uncommon random changes may occur.
May 14th, 2008 at 10:30 am
@sam
A scientist would dismiss god as an immediate explanation for what is observable, yes. Rightly so. The scientist could not then claim that such things categorically don’t exist. They are just irrelevant and unecessary assumptions for a scientific description. The distinction is subtle, but it is there.
I would suggest that the question of god and spaghetti monsters is just a different type of question. Scientific questions certainly have more immediate relevance to our daily lives. All I am saying is that you can’t use science to disprove God, because that is not what the scientific method does.
We naturally reject certain explanations/possibilities as implausible all the time in our daily lives. It would certainly be a waste of energy to continually remind ourselves that we are just assuming that the world around us doesn’t disappear when we close our eyes or that we aren’t just dreaming inside a computer program.
Occam’s razor tells us to accept the simplest explanation necessary to explain all the observable data. It doesn’t say that the simplest explanation is true, nor does it garantee that we have access to all the relevant data.
Every now and then though it is healthy to remind ourselves that there are limits to what we know, and the types of descriptions of the world that the scientific method provide. I’m a science guy all the way.
May 14th, 2008 at 10:37 am
@glenn
I thought that I was trying to explain that distinction in my post - science has no concern with the existence of god as currently it is unfalsiable, I was trying to clarify that a person claiming to follow scientific method yet also claiming belief in god is at odds because of that reason.
And occams razor uses “simplest” meaning the minimum number of assumptions should be made.
May 14th, 2008 at 11:04 am
@Glenn
““God did it” could be used to explain anything, but it is a deadend. It is not refutable for one thing, and for another, it does little to stimulate ideas for hypotheses to test (good theories generate interesting research questions).”
Well if we are talking about the Judeo-Christian god, for instance, it does raise interesting research questions, such as “Will this atom lose an electron if I pray God to make it happen ?”
@Nick
Also I’d like to go back to Nick’s comment about Islam. I am neither jewish nor muslim, but I went in Israel for work, and I came to the conclusion that the religious differences is perhaps 1% of the hatred between the two sides. Everything stems from a ethnic and cultural differences. I used to think that religion was the cause of many troubles, but take away religions and you would have exactly the same problems, be it in Ireland or in Israel.
Muslims, just as Jews, see themselves as a people and thus act accordingly, putting their interests before those of other people. But if they were not fighting about religions, it’d be something else.
So stop saying this or that religion is crazy. People are xenophobes, and religion is just one in a hundred reasons to beat the shit out of a neighbour that doesn’t live the way you do.
That said, I agree with most of what you are saying. Here in Europe this issue of teaching ID in US school is on the top ten stereotypes that makes USA look like a very retarded country (right along re-electing Bush, violating UN resolutions, training terrorists (Ben Laden), putting dictators in place (Sadam Hussein), and being able to sue McDonald if their coffee is too hot.).
May 14th, 2008 at 11:14 am
@Sam
I wasn’t aware that I implied ’simplest’ meant something other than that. There are some problems with that definition though, in that all assumptions are not created equal (i.e., an independently motivated assumption is more convincing than an arbitrary one).
A guy working at McDonald’s follows the official burger-making method. At home, he can do what he wants. He might even believe that the burger-making method McDonald’s uses is boring despite its efficiency. He can still make the fuck out of a burger that way despite his beliefs.
Further, does a theoretical physicist “believe” in a theory or does he/she propose it as an explanation of observable data? All scientific theories are false on some level because we don’t have access to all data. A scientist may believe his/her theory captures some element of the data in an elegant way, and may believe it captures something fundamental about the true state of things, but to believe that a theory is “true” in some absolute sense is a logical mistake.
May 14th, 2008 at 11:19 am
@Steph
God didn’t feel like making the electron disappear today. You see, god’s behavior is sort of unpredictable: not exactly a mechanism that would be possible to study.
In fact, based on what I know of the Christian god, he would deliberately avoid any such test.
May 14th, 2008 at 11:19 am
@Glenn
All I am saying is that you can’t use science to disprove God, because that is not what the scientific method does.
Yes but you can use science and logic to disprove what is written in the Bible (for instance). You can prove that some of it is false and thus prove that the assumption that it is the word of god himself is false, and thus come to the conclusion that we don’t know what parts of the Bibles are authentics (ie: not made up a few centuries after the facts). The same goes with the belief in an all-knowing, all-powerfull, benevolent god. You can logically prove that he can’t be all three at the same time. Otherwise puppies would never get killed.
So you can’t prove that god doesn’t exist but you can prove that the christian faith is based on bullshit.
That said, as I wrote in a pwot post that probably got deleted, we can always assume that God obeys a logic that we mere mortals cannot comprehend. If you did some computer science you know that boolean logic is not the only possible one (fuzzy logic and temporal logic being some others), so it may be reasonable to expect God to have his own logic, and his own definition of what is good.
May 14th, 2008 at 11:22 am
I don’t want to get into a bickering arguement over this, but we’re not talking about flipping burgers, that analogy really doesn’t hold in any way: We’re talking about something that fundamentally says something about your approach to life, as does science. The practice of science requires complete objectivity (not in all aspects of life as that would require automatons) which seems to be at odds with a religious persons apparent ability to accept a “fact”/”belief” (choose most fitting for you) with NO verifiable (read: repeatable) evidence.
And no, just to clarify theoretical physicists (as much as one can talk about generalisations here) do not “believe” in a theory, they may “beleive” a theory to be a good fit, but are willing to throw this theory out/ alter theory at the slightest hint of inaccuracy. These are two very different uses of the word “belief” and should not be confused.
May 14th, 2008 at 11:24 am
sorry to double comment - but on the all knowing all powerful front, a being (since we’re talking within the precepts of basic logic) cannot be both. If one were to argue a being can exist outside the logical foundation of arguement, then logically there can be no arguement, so the point is useless.
May 14th, 2008 at 11:30 am
@Merlot William
“As far as the whole “elitist” thing goes, being elite is a good thing yes, but not when people act like they are better than others because of it.”
It’s an unfortunate side effect to think you’re better than someone when you know they can’t or won’t get the facts straight. I don’t mince words to try to keep people’s feelings from being hurt. Faith in religion is one of those things though that people take personally. Things disguised under religion are all of sudden off limits to ridicule, and that is a travesty. That does cause me to look at contempt for religions that breed terrorists and pedophiles, and I DO think that I am better than terrorists and pedophiles. Belief based on faith and not evidence is ridiculous especially when we have ton of scientific proof to the contrary.
It’s also the trend that atheists have higher IQs and receive higher/better education. I can tell by personal experience that I know more than priests do about science and how the world really works. I almost jumped out of my seat when I used to go to church at the stupid, 100% incorrect stuff the guy was saying (particularly about the solar system). I only didn’t because I knew my family would have been embarrassed. Do I think I’m the smartest person in the world with all the answers? Not even remotely, but I do think I’m within the top 10%-15%. Does that make me an elitist? I guess so, but I do think that it’s rightfully earned by myself and a lot of others who don’t see the world through “God goggles.”
“I think that humans came from monkeys is bullshit.”
I do have to say that this is something you should take a long look at because we did evolve from a common ancestor with modern day monkeys/apes.
I don’t see why you would right out say that this is bullshit. It’s not an insult to anyone. Everyone also descended from an African American people called the San (which is kind of funny because the KKK and other racist hate groups as such are ancestry-wise also part black). It’s not an insult, it’s just history and how the world came to be via evolution and human migration.
What makes us so much better than monkeys anyways? Look at all the atrocities humans cause. We just have more advanced ways of killing each other.
Here’s a good video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmUGJ3Jh7fc
It talks about a few common misunderstandings as well as some false creationists beliefs. Specifically though it mentions about the ideas of human evolving from apes and mentions ERVs and the fused human chromosome. Here’s a full video explaining exactly what ERVs are and the probably that humans and chimpanzee’s have ERVs at the exact same insertion points that we find in our own genome. It’s needless to say that the figures are staggeringly in favor of evolution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUxLR9hdorI
“Just don’t hate all Christians who speak for God…”
I don’t hate any Christians, just the way they ignore science either because they didn’t take the time to learn/understand it or someone told them not to (take a look at Ken Ham who tells kids to always believe in God over the scientist under the motto: “God said it, I believe it, that settles it.”)
It’s that kind of willful ignorance that gets to me because there is no reason for it. Most religion even tries to destroy science… just look at the Dark Ages. If we had progressed from that time and the church hadn’t started burning books and such we would have had the technology we do today back around 1000-1100 AD. The church set the entire human race back around 1000 years.
“I find comfort and such in my religious belief system, yes…”
I just highly suggest that you take a long hard look at religion and the church before jumping into it too far and always keep a weary eye open (especially if they try to say anything using mathematics or science). Take it from a me… I’ve been baptized and confirmed, and for 15 years I went to church every week, I’ve read the Bible cover to cover, and there was no greater feeling that dropping the chains religion had put on me since I was barely old enough to learn how to walk. It’s completely unnecessary to being a moral and tolerant person (I’m actually more tolerant now than I was before).
I also appreciate life now is greater than ever before because it was myself that did it. It’s not God that let me do anything, and when something unfortunate happens it’s not because I sinned and God punished me. You can still stand on top of a mountain and look around with awe and wonderment at the beautiful scenery, but then take even more joy in knowing how that mountain formed in the first place. The world is amazing, but that’s not an excuse to claim “God did it,” tell people they’re going to hell, and then ignore and impede scientific advancement because it doesn’t fit in with the narrow world-view of the theist.
May 14th, 2008 at 11:39 am
@Glenn :
Sorry I replied before seeing your answer.
My point with the experiment was that we get an interesting answer : god avoids being tested. In fact he never gives any proof. We have a little miracle now and then, but nothing concrete. It’s interesting because if we are to believe the Bible, in the old days he would have made something to gain a little publicity. So why doesn’t he act the same with us and with people in 33 BC ? How can such a universal being change in only two thousand years ? Were people back then too primitive to handle faith without proofs ? I would say that back then it was much easier to start a religion. Just say God created this rainbow over there or this eclipse, and you have many followers. And now that we have the intellectual tools to challenge his existence, he doesn’t even try to give us something, except a two thousand years old book full of nonsense ?
@Sam :
That was my point : If such a being exist outside of basic logic, then there is no point arguing for or against it. And taking the Bible as proof, or the practice of church-going as the right way to honor God are just as irrelevant as thinking God made Man at his Image (which is really the foundation of the Evolutionist/Creationist battle : Evolutionists are placing Man as just one species among others)
@David Wong :
When are you going to show up !? We need you in such topics !
Anyway, I hope florida floats all the way to us in France, so we can have all the oranges. And some new stuff at Eurodisney.
May 14th, 2008 at 11:51 am
@Sam
In a nutshell, you are saying that god cannot be proven or disproven using logic. I agree. All I am saying is that God cannot be proven or disproven through science. It is a different problem space altogether.
I agree with you that a scientist that incorporates god into his theory is not being a good scientist. Yet, a believer is perfectly capable of proposing a scientific theory that holds water. Also, the scientific method is not a way of life or an accurate description of human behavior. It is just a system that we invented for accumulating knowledge systematically and making sound decisions in a variety of areas.
We believe things to be true all the time without understanding them or having justifications. I believe that tomorrow the earth will operate the same way it always has. I have no empirical basis for this since I cannot see into the future. I am making an inductive inference based on what I have observed so far. Strictly speaking, inductive inferences are not logical. Yet I and all of science make the assumption that this is the case. We believe it in the same way that a theist believes in God.
Also, when a scientist believes that a theory is fundamentally true despite contradictory evidence, he/she is displaying the same type of belief as a theist. It is a conviction based on a hunch, on a subjective evaluation of the body of evidence.
May 14th, 2008 at 11:54 am
On miracles:
Every miracle has a completely logical explaination. Take the healing water of Lourdes for example…
80,000 people a year visit for the last 100 years or so. They claim 66 miracle healings… that’s a one in 8 million chance (.0000008%) to be healed, and it’s never been something terminal or uncurable (i.e. it’s never cured a brain tumor, terminal cancer, or an amputated limb.) The doctors or modern medicine helped those 66 people, not God.
People seeing images in their grilled cheese or in wood grain is because the brain chooses to see what it wants… that’s why you can see a rabbit in the craters of a full moon or a all sorts of images in the clouds, and why people saw a devil face in the smoke from the towers on 9/11.
It all stems from irrationality. God doesn’t cure people in the hospital… the doctor’s and medicine do. God is not even close to being in the equation and to invoke his name in place of the doctor’s who spent years at school to study should be insulted that they don’t get credit.
May 14th, 2008 at 11:54 am
This has to be the most ignorant article I have ever read. I AM FROM FLORIDA and I will have you know we’re not all “White Incestuous trash”. I am Cuban along with 50% of Florida, and educated. Alot of us DIDN’T vote for Bush because he’s a pot smoking moron and everyone here in Miami is a Democrat. You say Florida smells funny? What part are going to? Maybe your confusing that with the smell of your ass, because apparently your head is shoved far up there. Oh and we’re Ugly Now???? That’s funny because the last time checked Heidi Klum lived for a very long time in FL, Carolyn Murphy was born and raised here, Megan Fox was raised here, and Alexis Barbara as well. I myself work for John Casablancas Miami. But we’re all ugly right???? I will never come to this crap website again because now I see how retarded you assholes are.
May 14th, 2008 at 11:55 am
I was just saying this the other day, when I realized that Florida was ALREADY screwing up the present election. Only not as funny, at the top of my lungs, and with great streams of dog blood shooting around the room as I stomped, stomped, stomped my hope away. (Hope is my dog and a metaphor for my actual hope, coincidentally.)
May 14th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Um, Supermodel4u305?
Jeb FUCKING Bush. You elected him by majority. Therefore the majority of you suck. That’s not numbers, it’s math and math doesn’t lie.
May 14th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
@Steph
I don’t find disproving literal readings of the bible to be all that interesting. The general idea of God, however, is pervasive.
May 14th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Religion can’t:
make a person even slightly more moral.
That’s one of the reasons the God Fuse article dissapointed me so much. The people who’ve treated me shittiest, from childhood through adulthood, have always been looking down on me from their pedastal of regular church attendence. Fuck anyone who thinks a persons values come from some arbitraty list in an old book and not from thinking about their actions and taking the path that causes the least suffering and brings the most joy into people’s lives.
May 14th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Humans aren’t even close to knowing enough about the Universe to make any kind of (valid) definitive claim that God exists or doesn’t. Whether they ever will be remains to be seen. Bottom line, the only relevance God SHOULD have is to the individual who believes in him(her/it). As long that individual practices their belief in a way that doesn’t (intentionally or overtly) hurt others, there’s nothing wrong with it, and frankly, no point even talking about it - unless someone asks your opinion of course….
May 14th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Oh good! Hopefully this means that we won’t be seeing you here any time soon. Thanks for the good news, now I can enjoy my sunshine and warm winters in peace.
May 14th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
@Merlot Williams
“Wow…I guess I misjudged you Nick and I apologize. I am man enough to admit when I am wrong.”
I appreciate that, and I don’t blame you. I know I don’t mince words and sound harsh most of the time, hence why most people here call me a douche bag. (But, really it’s mostly because I pissed off the GH fan boys for calling Guitar Hero a big pile of shit and a waste of time.)
“I find comfort and the such in my religious belief system, yes”
And, that’s fine, just don’t look too much to the belief system when modern technology will do just as well.
“I think that humans came from monkeys is bullshit.”
I think you should do some reading. The ERVs and the fused chromosome are 100% definiative proof that we have a common ancestry with modern day apes.
“Each side, whether Athiest/Agnostic or Judeo-Christian, both have either unearthed or scientific fact to back their claim.”
I have to disagree. Religion has no evidence to back their claim in god except anecdotal evidence which isn’t testable, repeatable, or verifiable. These are 3 essential things for the scientific method.
“I respect people with a difference of opinion, what pisses me off about it is when people think that their opinion is the only opinion.”
What pisses me off is when people claim that their opinion is true despite complete lack of evidence and then try to put it on the same level as something that’s backed by hundreds of ears of test evidence.
“I bet you (Nick) could tell a Christian more facts out of the Bible than your average “holier than thou” churchgoing asshole.”
Yes, I was born and raised catholic, baptized and confirmed complete with catholic school for several years.
“As far as the whole “elitist” thing goes, being elite is a good thing yes, but not when people act like they are better than others because of it.”
Some already said this is just a side affect. It’s as if I tried to tell a surgeon they’re operating wrong… I don’t know nearly enough about it. If someone claims evolution didn’t happen, then I call bullshit and give them the evidence. If it offends them, then it’s a personal problem. I won’t concede scientific proof over faith just because someone claims it.
“Bottom line is, you are a pretty cool guy, and I misjudged you.”
Thanks.
“Just don’t hate all Chrisitans who speak for God, when they can’t fathom any of his teachings, or even get their own facts straight.”
I don’t hate the person. I hate the ignorance. Much like Christians that say “Don’t hate the sinner, hate the sin.” People just need to educate themselves and not chalk it up to “God did it.”
May 14th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Best on Cracked in a long time!
Intelligent Design, if you believe that I have some offers for you! Just give me your banking info and I (A Nigerian Prince) will wire you $80 million dollars!
Oh and also, give me your daughters right away! Not for any religious reason, just because being employed as my personal sex-slaves is still better than learning from you!!
Christians,
tastes like chicken..
May 14th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
It’s pretty sad that I have to hear about the goings-on of my own home state from a comedy website. I’ve lived in Gainesville for all these past 23 years and I’ve never heard any of this. On the other hand, we are kind of a bunch of elitist pricks who tend to ignore the crazy bullshit the rest of the state throws out what with our University of Florida and our Gator football. We tend to subscribe to the idea that “the south ends once you arrive and resumes once you leave” as if we were surrounded by an anti-redneck field or something.
May 14th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
@Nick : “God is not even close to being in the equation”
I’m all the way with you on the miracle issue. Yet I think that faith has a huge potential placebo effect and thus we cannot say that faith is useless. God, even if he doesn’t exist, is in the equation for those who believe in him, and it makes a difference for them.
That said,
@Glenn : “a believer is perfectly capable of proposing a scientific theory that holds water.”
I agree with the fact that a scientist can also be a believer. But yet, would you trust a scientist who thinks astrology or numerology is true ? Why not ? Because the fact that he doesn’t use his critical thinking in such important subjects as Fate puts his intellectual capacities into question. The same goes for people following the Christian (or Muslim, or Buddhist, or Atheist, or anyone claiming to know the unknowable) faiths : these people are not afraid of logical contradictions.
That said, a lot of great men in the past and in the present were believers. I think Blaise Pascal said “a little science takes away from religion, but a lot of science brings back to it”. So maybe we are just too dumb…
“I don’t find disproving literal readings of the bible to be all that interesting.”
Me neither, yet so many people still cling to this book and to religion as the right way to worship God, taking what makes sense and leaving the rest.
“The general idea of God, however, is pervasive.”
My view is that there is nothing wrong with believing in a higher power. What is pervasive is the way men have used this idea to gain power and to back up their actions.
Also all this talk is taking the fideist approach of God, stating that his existence is unprovable. Many believers think there are concrete proofs of his existence. These are either uninformed people or lucky chosen ones.
Also @Nick :
Will you revise your judgment on Guitar Hero when the DS version comes out ? (comical remark intended)
May 14th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
@ Steph:
“I’m all the way with you on the miracle issue. Yet I think that faith has a huge potential placebo effect and thus we cannot say that faith is useless. God, even if he doesn’t exist, is in the equation for those who believe in him, and it makes a difference for them.”
Yes, it does have just a placebo affect on some people… i.e. comfort and such, but that comes with such a much worse price: terrorism, ignorance, indoctrination, fear. A placebo might just be a sugar pill, but if someone comes up to you with a big sugar supository in the shape of a dildo and says it’s religion (genocide, infanticide, fear, servitude, etc.), you probably wouldn’t bed over. Then they say they’ll be gentle and add some lube (eternal life) and then for some reason people just bend over, take it, and then ask for more because people are afraid of death and eternal life is reassuring.
“Will you revise your judgment on Guitar Hero when the DS version comes out ?”
I just don’t see the point. Still doesn’t do anything do or help anything. Might as well just use an MP3 player and play air guitar… you’d look cooler than playing the DS thing. At least people will look and be like “wow… that guy’s having a good time” rather than “look at that guy play a toothpick sized guitar picture with 4 buttons. I look at it and think… wow… DDR but America is so lazy that they’ll only use 4 fingers to play it.
Actually, I’ll be a little nice on this one for the sole purpose that it would be good for travel. Give a 10 year old some earphone and he’ll be quite for an 10 hour car ride home, so that’s good for the parents because they can avoid a backseat beating mid-drive. You can’t really play a real guitar while riding in the back seat of a car, so it has some purpose, but ultimately still a bit futile. At home, they should still stick to getting a real guitar and teach themselves the real thing.
That’s my judgement for now.
May 14th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
I thought those “god hates fags” t’s was talking about cigarettes for a minute. In Britain the question “Can I bum a fag?” is entirely innocent. Bum=borrow and fag=cigarette. An innocent question that WILL get you killed in Florida.
May 14th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Dick joke
May 14th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Religion can’t get me hard without simultaneously making me feel guilty.
May 14th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
@Nanogasm:
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; wearing fancy clothes to church once a week will never make up for the fact that someone’s a horrible person.
I do love the irony of hearing these uptight well-dressed ultra-whitey picket fencers in the ‘burbs blast the Mexican immigrants doing their yardwork and household chores as ‘immoral’ when those Mexicans are more deeply rooted in religion than anyone in the Western world.
I’m sure God is very impressed by the ability to accumulate wealth and fashions and then pretend they’re good Christians.
May 14th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Guys, we must have different faiths, because my religion can totally do all of those things.
May 14th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Plenty of hatin’ on Florida, less hatin’ on religion. The first miracle Jesus did was to make wine for a wedding. That means Jesus wanted everyone to have a dirink and for the bride and groom to be able to get to the honeymoon (read: lots of fucking) without any further delay. If that’s not what is being conveyed by embezzling televangelists, then hate on the dumbass motherfuckers who listen to them, but don’t put the blame on real Christianity.
May 14th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
“I’m not God. There is no God. I’m just an opinionated guy with hopes of sparking some people into thinking for themselves and taking joy in the short time they have to live on this Earth without throwing it away worrying about making some invisible man mad.”
WIN.
Don’t anger the greyhair on the golden throne in the clouds!!
May 14th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
But what would America be without it’s wang? (Answer: France)
May 14th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Florida sure does suck… unless you moved down here for school from a northern state in the middle of the coldest winter on record, like I did. Then, when you step outside in January in shorts and a t-shirt while your old friends are getting severe frostbite you realize that Florida is actually pretty awesome. If we’re gonna get rid of a state, I vote for the People’s Republic of Kalifornia - isn’t it supposed to break off and sink one of these days anyway?
Also, am I the only one who severly misses PWOT? That site used to make me laugh so hard it hurt.
May 14th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
@Ms. Miscreant
It’s an amazing prospect isn’t it? To live life to the fullest… one of my favorite quotes from Thoreau (one of the few things I enjoyed in english class):
“I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.”
May 14th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
I got out while I still could. Fuck you, home state! D<
May 14th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
I actually broke down and read the bible the other day, and you know what I learned?
DON’T GET CRUCIFIED, THAT SHIT HURTS LIKE A BITCH.
“Hey Jesus, What’s Up?”
“Ohhh… nothing much, just hanging around”
May 14th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Q: “Do you know why Jesus stopped playing hockey?”
A: “He was tired of always getting nailed to the boards.”
May 14th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
We did fly you to the moterfucking moon. Cape motherfucking Canaveral. Courtesy of motherfucking Florida.
May 14th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
You’re forgetting Miami-Dade is one of the most crime infested places in the country. I check cnn.com EVERY DAY and there is at least one murder, rape, or child abuse claim from Miami-Dade county. Sometimes a prison escapee or school shooting to liven things up.
Oh, besides the religious freakazoids….child beauty pageants. ‘Nuff said.
May 14th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Here’s my solution to Florida, give North Florida to Alabama and Georgia where it belongs anyway,( That way I don’t have to pay double property taxes).
Let central Florida become the Republic of Disney, which it pretty much is anyway.
Give South Florida to Cuba kind of like the British did with Hong Kong so Cuba will have a money source to enter the 20th century and I did mean 20th.
Let Tampa become a free and independent city with tax haven status, so I don’t have to send my money to the Cayman Islands.
May 14th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
I live in daytona beach and I must say, this state gets tagged wrong all the time.
maybe there are a lot of religious zealots here, but probably in bum fuck counties around the everglades.
where I live there are beaches, babes, and trap houses.
as a matter of fact, 82lbs of Columbian cocaine just got picked up the other day.
I almost forget to mention that we got badass serial killers that prey on the hookers, what more could you possible ask for?
Shit, this place was probably the most ill city on earth during the 80’s
oh yeah, EMBRY RIDDLE is also here so we also support full on terrorism.
HAIL THE SATAN STATE!
May 14th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Anyone who takes religion seriously is retarded to begin with, I dont see why you would get angry over it in the first place.
also
godhatesfags.com already exists under the alias “4chan.org”
May 14th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
@ThisGuy :
Well, France has a wang, and an erect one for that matter. It’s called Bretagne and it’s pointing on you !
May 14th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
To bad France lost their balls shortly after WWI.
May 14th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
@ Nick
It’s really a matter of faith. Most humans I have seen these days n