10 Things Christians and Atheists Can (And Must) Agree On
|
3. In Everyday Life, You're Not That Different You Christians, if the transmission in your Camaro explodes, are you going to use prayer to reconstruct it? No, you'll call a mechanic. When your tooth hurts, you don't assume it's possessed by demons. You look for a cavity. Basic, everyday troubleshooting. Well, at the very worst, the atheists are just applying the same common sense, real-world troubleshooting to the God question. At the creation of the universe and in the heart of mankind, they expect to find the same physical, tangible answers they'd find inside a burnt transmission. If they're wrong about God, they're only wrong in that they've taken the tried-and-true troubleshooting we all practice one step too far. On the other hand... Atheists, even if you reject the idea of God completely and claim to live according only to the cold logic of the physical sciences, you all still live as if the absolute morality of some magical lawgiver were true. No, wait. Don't go away. When some guy hustles you out of eighty bucks in an ebay scam, you don't nod and say, "Interesting! This fellow lacks the genetic predisposition toward equitable dealing that generations of sexual selection in favor of social behavior has instilled in the rest of us! A fascinating difference!" No, you think what that guy did was wrong. You want justice. You think he should have acted differently. Even though there's no "wrong" molecule floating in the air and there's no "justice" element on the Periodic Table. You don't think of the swindler as just a fellow animal who happens to behave differently than you. You think he should have acted some other way, according to an invisible ideal that everybody is aware of and knows they should obey. When that "boob at the Super Bowl" incident happened a while back, I constantly heard atheists making fun of Christians and their puritan silliness over sex. "Come on! It's just meat! We're all just mammals! Sex is natural! What are you afraid of?!?!?" Yet, the moment you find out that while you were on vacation, your girl got drunk and slept with the entire Chicago Bears... 
Again there's this invisible rule that was supposed to be followed, that everybody was supposed to be aware of, that can't be proven by logic. Whatever it is, wherever you think it came from, you can't deny that it's there. Your own behavior would make you a liar. Well, at the very worst, the Christians are just taking that same moral impulse and applying it to the God question. At the creation of the universe, they expect to find the same invisible hand that pushes us to be fair and loyal and kind. If they're wrong about God, they're only wrong in that they've taken that absolute morality and put a face on it, made an idol out of it. Taken it one step too far. You think of it that way, and the amount of overlap between the two of us is actually pretty striking. Right? 
4. There Are Good People on Both Sides This is an easy one. I shouldn't lose anybody here. All you need is examples. Atheists, you can despise a Falwell or the gay funeral protesting guy, but you've known Christians who did it right. Famous ones like Martin Luther King Jr., or just common ones you've run across who seem to have an inexaustible well of generosity and good cheer. You know how many charities have crosses on their logo. Christians... look. The church loves to phrase it like: "The faithful will be joined with their father in Heaven, while the liars, the murderous, the treacherous will be cast down with Satan and his hordes." See the gap there, between the first part of the statement and the second? What about all the people in between? The atheists and Muslims and Buddhists and Scientologists who aren't murderous or treacherous or liars? I understand the concept, that all morality comes from God and thus those on the outside are vulnerable to temptation and the devil and all that. But you know good people who aren't believers. I know you do. You can't miss them. Therefore: If God alone can deliver us from temptation, And, Some people who don't believe in God are also able to resist temptation, Then, God must offer his protection against temptation even to some who don't believe in God. One could even say that God aids the atheist's honest desire to follow one of God's rules... even while he continues to deny God. 
Next... 5. Your Point of View is Legitimately Offensive to Them Now, this says nothing about whether or not it's true. For this, I only ask that you understand why they get offended. Everybody is aware that something can be both true and offensive, right? You see a friend holding a newborn baby and you say, "You know, there's a chance he'll die tomorrow." Or you stand over the casket at your uncle's funeral and say, "He'll definitely be consuming fewer of the world's natural resources now." Both statements completely, 100% factually correct, and can be defended to the end of time by cold, undeniable logic. And both are incredibly offensive. To say such things, and to be surprised when the hearers take offense, would show such a profound misunderstanding of human nature that everyone will assume you were raised by wolves. So Christians, knowing what we just said about how it is possible to be a true, honest atheist, that people walk around every day and truly see no evidence of God, can you understand why it's offensive to them to hear that they, and their family, and their children, and their friends, are going to burn for eternity for it? Especially if you, as most modern churches do, imply that people born into other cultures who honestly follow other faiths, are also going to burn? Because they were fooled by Satan?    From chick.com
Nobody hates the idea of a creator, or of there being some kind of ultimate justice in the universe. That's not what has these people in such a bad mood. They despise the clique-ish, militant exclusion of it. 
Atheists. Same deal. It's irritating to you when they say you and your friends aren't going to Heaven because of your beliefs. But it's just as irritating to them when you say they're not going to Heaven, because there is no Heaven. And the irritation happens on the same grounds, which is, injustice. You hate the idea of all non-Christians burning for eternity, but you're telling them that the mass murderer and kindly grandma will draw the same eternal reward (or lack of). Now, again, both of you are saying, "But I'm factually right in what I'm saying!" And that's fine. For this, all we're doing here is understanding why they're offended by what you say. That's it. Putting yourself in their shoes. Basic human empathy. That's all. 
|
Reddit
Facebook
StumbleUpon
Digg
Del.icio.us
FarkRecommended for Your Pleasure
-
5 Self-Destructive Ways People Accidentally Cured Themselves
by: Wes Park1,069,338 views -
6 Fake Foods You (Will Wish You Didn't) Have in Your Kitchen
by: Ian Fortey1,062,931 views -
6 Natural Disasters That Were Caused by Human Stupidity
by: Ben Dennison966,795 views -
17 More Images You Won't Believe Aren't Photoshopped
by: Joe Russo2,740,377 views
There would be just as many wars and disputes in the world if there was no religion. Religion is not the reason people fight and argue, the Ego is, wich is mankind's largest disfunction. The Ego is what makes us not want to be wrong, "My god is right not yours". People have killed other people because the keyed thier car. Someone identified himself with his car so much that when the paint job was ruined he murdered!!! The Ego! Religion is the face that the Ego has adopted. Without religion a war would be fought over for something as equally retarded. Patriotism, Religion, Family feud, it's all Ego. Another example, the statement "I am Christian" the important part is the "I am" Identifying with christianity and not saying I believe in Christianity. For the record I believe in Catholocism.
Absolutely awesome article. By the way you described you're religious background and subsequent "semi-return", I think we're on the same boat. You really completely nailed all of the ideas that I'd like to convey to all of my "overloaded with smug" atheist friends.
Wow, reading that was...nice, solid article. Eshto, even if Wong's definition of atheism doesn't meet your personal standards (no offense, but it meets mine, and I identify as an atheist), this still has plenty to say.
It's all point of view. Just remember that. Great article.
Deep down, I'm likely one of the many others who felt this was fair, insightful, and heartwarming, but unfortunately I disagreed with a few things. On the bright side, it's too damn late to pick through it all. I'd just like to say that it feels like this was written as a "Both sides aren't going away, so the best we can do is just get along right?" plea. Makes sense, and you did it in probably the best way possible. Fantastic article.
However, I think a necessary distinction should be made between the religious/spiritual/dualist impulse and the faith in doctrine. It's hard to generalize about religion, and why shouldn't it be? Nowadays everyone has their own "personal god," so think this distinction is important.
I'm completely fine with whatever metaphysical beliefs one has to make them feel consoled in times of grief, or like their life has some greater purpose, or like there is some intelligent order in the universe (I would however still disagree and debate about anthrocentrism and fate, but this argument is somewhat petty compared to the really important stuff... like federal policy). This kind of "religion," I'm more than okay with. A dualist mindset is innate, and has helped produce art and our sense of morality.
It's when you anthropomorphize your beliefs a little too much that it becomes a problem. Say you think this "intelligence" in the universe has intentions. Say you think it has doctrines and rules. Say you hear its voice in your head. It's here when we too easily drift from "vehicle for conscience" to "borderline schizophrenia." It's this anthrocentric projection we must avoid, because if we let the "faith impulse" take us TOO far, it can drive us AWAY from innate human rationality and morality (i.e. Abraham willing to slay his son Isaac for his faith) and to ... well, probably the Westboro Church.
Thank you. It's heartening to see the number of thoughtful comments, as well. Religions may promote things I don't like (like mysogyny, for instance) but a religion isn't a person. I have very dear friends who are quite devout, and a mother-in-law who I love that is incredibly religious. But none of them try to convert me; they just live their lives as best they can. They're great examples, not just of religious people, but of human beings in general. Whatever got my friends to be awesome people and helps keep them going, I'm all for it. And they seem to feel the same way about me and my beliefs.
This disagreement isn't going to be "won" by either extreme; they just polarize the other side's views and make it that much harder. Finding middle ground is the only solution I can see, and that has the best chance of happening if people can be honest with themselves. This article is a great way to do so.
Wow. I was just put in my place superhardcore. Lately I've been so frustrated by my why-don't-they-get-my-logic mindset, while still understanding that "they" have the same mindset, so what do I do? I loved the tolerance theory at the end. Calling someone a dick just makes you a dick. If everyone ignored the dicks, there would be LESS dicks in the world. If we could spend all our energy on something more productive than hate for the ignorant, everyone would generally be more tolerant and happy. This put my mind at peace. Now this article just needs to spread virally, please.
I've been questioning my religion lately and this article actually helped me with my faith, Thank You.
I think some people misunderstand the article. It was NOT "We're All Equally Wrong". The mentality of it was more within the "Hey, let's try not acting like dicks today" picture with the cat in the hat and... you get it.
Diamonte said:
"...one could say that an atheist making that claim is also impeding human advancement by being less accepting of his fellow man."
And so could a theist. I know you know that, I just felt like pointing that out. Neither side is justified in being intolerant. It's not one side or the other that causes world conflict. It's the general inability to simply allow other opinions to exist in your presence that causes our problems. And I'm sad for that.
I just found this one checking for old lists i haven't read in the 2 years i've been monitoring this site...
turned out to be the best one I ever read here. I guess this text just turned me from a radical to a moderate, compassionate atheist.
Thank you for this. Just... thank you. Entertaining, thoughtful, and an excellently concise treatise on living well -- whether or not you intended it to be so. There are a lot of things here I'll be thinking about as I move on through my life -- hopefully as a person other people can be proud to know. Heh.
is it at all possible for anyone to leave a comment here that isnt a huge block of text?
To say that the religious are impeding progress, is like saying all teenaged, African-American males tote guns around. It's simply not true. To say that those practitioners of any religion (or religion(s)) are impeding scientific progress is - if looked at in a psychological viewpoint - an attempt to further a personal vendetta based on opinion, and not solidly placed in the holds of statistical proof. Let's not forget the physicists, microbiologists, chemists, etc. that study in the fields of their respective scientific endeavors, then attend church - or any other religious gathering, depending on religion - on Sunday - or Saturday, whichever you are inclined. Broad generalization is another mistake that is universally synonymous with warfare as well. So, if taken in the context of a biased opinion, one could say that an atheist making that claim is also impeding human advancement by being less accepting of his fellow man.
I will have to agree on some things with Skepacabra, but I beg you to be more tolerant, as those who are religious, no matter how mind-numbingly stupid their beliefs are, no matter how much they have destroyed and set back humanity, believe they are doing the right thing. It is all a matter of education. They have to be taught that their beliefs are wrong and irrational, and are impeding progress. And Atheism has never stood in the way if morality. Except, we can accept that people have a sense of morality without having to have received it from god. We can actually believe in humans enough to realize that everyone has a sense of morality, just some choose not to do what they know to be right. Everyone knows what is right and wrong, they just have a hard time doing the right thing. Besides, I don't know why you make such a big fuss about morality and the rules of society when these are all simply human creations that can be changed or eliminated at the drop of a hat. Yesterday it may have been okay to alienate gays, tomorrow it is a crime to alienate gays. Rules and morality don't exist, they are molded to the convenience of the current world leaders. I have thought long and hard and have come to the conclusion that society, and human life in general, is pointless and therefore there is no need to respect it. The whole Earth is just a tiny chunk of rock floating around in an infinitely large expanse of other galaxies. We are tiny, ignorant organisms with unbelievably short lives and no purpose in the universe. The world was made out of gases and rock, has existed for 4.54 billion years, and in anywhere from 3 to 7.5 trillion years, our solar system will cease to exist, and absolutely nothing will have happened.
This is just a classic example of false balance. Pretending all sides of a disagreement are equally wrong when they're obviously not in a token gesture to bring unity is absurd. The author doesn't get it at all. I consider myself an extremely rational person and I celebrated Falwell's death just like I celebrated Saddam's death. I didn't picket any funerals. The man was an enemy and a detriment to society. So I'm happy he's not around anymore. That's not "devaluing life." Nor is it overly romanticizing the value of life, regardless of how repulsive that life was lived. Some people's deaths should be celebrated because they were simply miserable people.
And while no one would argue that atheists are just as capable of doing terrible things, I invite you to present a single case of someone ever doing terrible things "in the name of atheism." Nobody died because people were too rational. And it's ironic that you brought up exorcism in your picture because exorcisms have killed many people.
I also take issue with the notion that atheism is "legitimately offensive" to theists. Atheists have every reason to find religion repulsive. It motivates female oppression, homophobia, wars, child rape, and countless other evils in the world. But merely doubting the claims of the religious is not a legitimate reason to be found offensive. Not even close.
Next, we're not exaggerating about the religious. Nearly every major scientific breakthrough for thousands of years has been met with dogmatic resistance from the religious. They even destroyed the Library of Alexandria, setting back the human race for a thousand years. There's Galileo, Darwin, Einstein, Hawking. More than half the nation rejects evolution and the big bang because they've been fed misinformation about it and it directly challenges their worldview. And tens of thousands of kids each year join Ron Luce's "Battle Cry" Movement, which is a lot like that Jesus Camp movie. And the vast majority of the county is looking forward to the end of the world and praying it happens in their lifetimes. There's little doubt that if atomic weapons do get into the hands of the deeply religious, they will unmake our world.
And finally the WBC comparison, which you falsely label as particularly radical. They preach the exact same message as Pat Robertson, only Robertson has a television show with an audience of millions and they just picket a few funerals. Yet Robertson's mainstream and they're just fringe nuts? Um, no. Wake up!
good article
i love this article...SO MUCH.
haha. i dont care how old it is; it has a lot of good points. im a Christian, but I'm not a Bible-bashing on the head kind of Christian. i have quite a few friends who are atheist, and although sometimes im saddened by it, i don't try to make them think any further of it. everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and every side of religion or belief has those who are so close-minded that they feel like forcing it on others. :/
Technique: Not that I don't get how irritating and patronizing it usually is, but witnessing (or, you know, harrassing non-Christians, depending who's doing it) is the expression of one of the most morally justifying, and consequently easily abused, pilars of Christianity: if you go to hell, I, as a Christian, am responsible. Meaning those of us who aren't Fred Phelps feel compelled to make up for his s**t.
What I'm wondering is, why the compulsion to tear down someone's beliefs, as you put it? It doesn't hurt anyone else if I believe in God, and it may profit me a great deal (Socrates)--anything that systematically deals with and disposes of fear of death, frees me up for the business of living.
I love this article. It's not comedy, but it is great. All the arguements you make are correct. And people often forget the shades of gray. When people say 'Christan', sometimes they think extremists or of one sect. However, I'm a sect of Christianity that doesn't do a lot of things in general. Great point.
More on Weird World
-
7 Secrets Only Two Living People Know (For Some Reason)
1,488,481 views -
The 15 Most Shameless Fake Photos Ever Passed Off as Real
1,175,444 views -
6 Creepy Urban Legends That Happen to be True (Part 3!)
1,079,820 views -
The 6 Creepiest Places on Earth
1,075,128 views
-
The Men Who Stare At Goats: New Trailer
by: CRACKED21,967 views -
Curse of the Duck Hunt Dog
by: Tremendosaur68,496 views
-
Articles
-
Videos
-
Columnists
-
More Cracked
-
About
Copyright © 2005 - 2009 Cracked Entertainment, Inc. All rights reserved. CRACKED, CRACKED.COM and the "CRACKED" logo are trademarks owned by Cracked Entertainment, Inc. All rights reserved.
Not to be a joiner, but I also thought this was great.